RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law

[Kevin Deegan]

Gal 4:21  Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?

> Paul was making reference to people who desired to be under the Law.

Like the LDS who desire to be under the law but are powerless to hear it and OBEY it!

BE YE DOERS and NOT HEARERS ONLY DECIEVING YOUR OWN SELVES!

 

Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> [Original Message]
> From: Peter Krostag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Date: 11/11/2005 10:32:19 PM
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intent of the Law
>
>
> cd: The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ- yes-to show our
> transgressions- yes- but the law is still there.
>
> Pete responds:
>
> Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
> schoolmaster.
>
> Paul was that saying we are no longer under the schoolmaster which is the
> Law. That is pretty clear.
>
> Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the
> law?
>
> Paul was making reference to people who desired to be under the Law. He
> gives the allegory of Mt. Sinai and Jerusalem. Mt. Sinai was the Law and
> Jerusalem was Christ. Jerusalem is the mother of us all in that we are
born
> in the Spirit through Christ Jesus. The richness of His wisdom of is
shown
> explicitly in the Law by showing us how unrighteous we are. Like I said
> before, I don't claim to understand everything, but the salvation I
received
> was by faith in His blood and my walk since that experience in Him is not
> determined by the Law, but by living by faith and walking in the Spirit.
> This is a mystery to the world because the world thinks on a different
> level.
>
> Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman
and
> her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of
the
> freewoman.
>
> We are not from the bondwoman (The Law), but the freewoman (Christ Jesus).

cd: I think at this point we need to clarify what part of the law are you
speaking of? The Mosaic law in it's entirety? The dietary law? The
sacrificial Law? The priestly law? The moral law as in the ten commandments?
>
> cd: We know we needed a savior because of sin leading to hell and because
> of Christ we are taken above the Law but if we break that same law then we
> fall back under that punishment or not- as God decides- and depending on
> ones continuing with that sin of not. Yes we have an advocate who is our
> intercessor but I cannot claim the intercessor will always continue with
> complete intercession-there is a severe penalty for that continuance even
to
> be cut off.
>
> Pete responds:
>
> I believe that a person who continues in sin will eventually come to a
point
> in his life and say, "I do not wish to fellowship with God any longer."
> This is when he puts the blood of Christ to an open shame.

cd: I have the tendance to think that because of continuance in sin God
will say: " I will not fellowship with that person any longer (ie.a sad
day). Balaam wanted both the riches of the world and God which lead to his
rejection. Esau also enjoyed sin and cried for a place of repentance and
was giving none.God's choice brother for the over the limit fee not ours.
>
> cd: Paul said in 1 Cor 9:27 that he brought his body into subjection (ie
> Fasting and prayer) lest-even though he had preached to others -he be a
> castaway?
>
> Hebrews 3:12 Take care brethren,that there not be in any one of you an
> evil, unbelieving heart that fall away from the living God.
> I fail to see this in your teaching Peter. True our good works doesn't
lead
> one to salvation as God turns on that "light" then we are to choose. But
we
> are judged by our works after salvation.
> Rev 20:12 ...and the dead were judged from the things which were written
in
> the books according to their works.also Ps 62:12, Jer. 17:10, Rom 2:6, 1
> Peter 1:17...etc.
>
> Pete responds:
>
> AMEN.
>
> cd:Yes if that person is walking in the Spirit-but what if he is not? The
> chose is always there day in and day out-We choose each day as we have not
> lost our free will. I also don't believe we have a sinful flesh due to the
> fact I was given a new heart. I don't see any part of a Christian as
> evil.This is why we are tested and tried and refined as gold and silver is
> refined for purity.I can claim to be righteous because of Christ and I can
> claim to walk in righteous because I don't break God's
commandments.Walking
> in sin-which you called the flesh-will do more then stop your growth
> brother. Also please explain " The atonement by the blood of Jesus keeps
us
> alive in Christ"?
>
> Pete responds:
>
> First: I am not sure I want to debate why the flesh is evil. I know you
> have your reasons for understanding Romans 7 in a different light than
how I
> understand it to mean. I am not sure we will ever agree on it.

cd: The words of" walking in the flesh" for me means to act as the world
acts in a sinful manner-or following the old desires not the new desires of
the Holy Spirit. Paul stated that he did the things he didn't want to do
and failed to do the things that he wanted to do-but I don't believe Paul
was a liar ,fornicator, or any type of practicing sinner. I simple believe
Paul wanted to do more for God -by his works-and felt he has failed to do
more.For me the flesh isn't sinful but to walk in that manner is sinful.
>
> Second: The new heart you and I were given at the time of our salvation
was
> a wonderful gift. Personally, when I received a new heart, I looked at
life
> completely different than I did before my salvation experience. It was as
> if a veil had been lifted from my eyes. Today, I could never claim to be
> righteous or to keep my righteousness because I keep the commandments.
That
> would mean that Jesus' blood was only good at salvation and the life I now
> live is the result of keeping the Law. If the Law were somehow
instrumental
> in sustaining my salvation, then Paul's writings would have been pretty
> clear about the significance of the role of the Law in a believer's life.
> He mentions that the Spirit was important in leading and guiding a
believer.
> He makes a huge difference between the two. Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore
> in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled
> again with the yoke of bondage.

cd: Then why does the verse admonish us to "stand fast" as not to be
entangled again in the yoke of bondage?What is this "yoke of bondage" if it
not the breaking of the moral Law?The keeping of the law is instrumental in
keeping one relationship with God or the admonishment wouldn't be there
Peter. The very meaning of the word righteous is to be right by the law-so
how can the unrighteous be called righteous. Can one be called a Homo
sexual-Christian? What then is the unrighteous if not a practicing
sinner?Again faith get us there in Christ but one cannot demand faith as a
covering for his future works? Romans 3:31:"Do we then void the law thru
faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law". We are justified by faith
therefore I cannot boast on my ability of obtaining salvation. But I can
boast of The Holy Spirit's ability to convict me and my ability to be
subject to that Spirit. I can boast of being a Christian and be proud of
it. BY my subjection I establish the law
>
> My righteousness was the result of the blood of Jesus. Any righteous
deeds
> that I do now, is the result of walking in obedience to the Spirit and by
> growing in His grace by fellowshipping with God through the Spirit and His
> Word. I never say that I am righteous today because I keep the Law, but
> only through His blood.

cd: Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yields yourselves servants to
obey, his servants ye are; whether of sin unto death,or of obedience unto
righteousness? Consider the word "obedience" and out part of keeping the
law.1 Cor. 9:21...but under the law of Christ,). There is yet a law to be
under Peter.
>
> Third: We are made alive through Jesus' atoning blood through the Spirit.
> That act purged our conscience from dead works. We are alive in Christ
> through the Spirit because of the atonement of His blood. As a new
> creature, we grow in His grace. We are not born mature, but as babies.
We
> learn more about Him and grow spiritually by fellowship with Him and
> desiring the sincere milk of the Word. The Law does not sustain my
> relationship with Him. His Word and His Spirit in me, sustains me and
> teaches me to live for Him and to live righteously.

cd: Yet the breaking of the law can break your relationship with God -so
logic would dictate your actions (ie.works,deeds) in the keeping of the Law
is important relating to sustaining your relationship with God. Tell me how
does one "live righteous"?
>
> Pete
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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