Terry, here is my point. please take the time to read it. Answer my
questions to yourself, then please repond and let me know if you get my
point in this whole ordeal.
Terry, would you consider having a similar conversation in your sunday
school class? Let you mind wander to your sunday school class, if you attend
one, or a prayer meeting or some other church function you attend:
Would you be at all shocked if Sunday morning a woman, lets say "Irma", in
your class asked of another member, Ray, "How about during sex, Ray? Ive
read that youre supposed to leave them [your underwear] on then, too. True
or false?" Would anyone be shocked at this? Would you?
What if Ray responds, "Do you really think it is appropriate to discuss such
personal things [in a sunday school class] that is known for its lack of
taste at times? If you really want to know the answer to personal questions
such as that, contact me [after sunday school] and I'll answer your
question."
[ Ray starts to take the right tack, but then offers to answer the question
in private! Does this seem appropriate to you, Terry?]
Then Irma says, "You know I'll tell!".
[Irma is playing with Ray. Terry, does that seem appropriate?]
Then Ray responds, "Wow Irma......I am rather surprised to hear you say
that! But it is nice to know you are not so hypocritical that you would
not be willing to [discuss in Sunday School] such personal things as you
expect me to share. Now that I think about it Irma, I'm sure it would be
much more interesting for TTers to hear about your sexual experiences than
mine. Do tell! "
[ Now, Ray asks irma to relate HER sexual experiences. Does this seem
appropriate to you, Terry?]
[And at this point the Ray has focused the discussion on "Irmas Sexual
Experiences".]
Suddenly, Jean, being offended by such talk, calls for the teacher, "Where
is our teacher? Carlos?"
[Jean is genuinely offended by this type of talk, joking or not! Does this
surprise you, Terry?]
To which Ray quickly quips, "Do you suppose Carlos will know anything about
them [Irma's sexual experiences], Jean?!?!"
[ Ray is now taking Jean's sincere call for moderation from he teacher, and
turning it into an extremely dirty and suggestive question regarding the
teacher, Carlos, and Irma. Does this seem appropriate, Terry? Before you
answer, rememebr, Ray is only joking! Is this type of joking appropriate for
Chrstians?]
Now, Terry, if you tell me that this is the kind of sunday School classes
YOU attend, I will seriously question the spiritual sincerelty of you and
your class members! You all knew Ray was joking, BUT THE JOKES ARE LACIVIOUS
and the product of a PERVERSE mind!
Next, Carlos pulls Ray and Irma aside and asks them to apologize to the
class, and especially to Jean, and even to himself for dragging him into it.
Even though all knew they were joking, SOME WERE GENUINELY OFFENDED BY THE
LACIVIOUS NATURE OF THE JOKING! [Terry, does this seem like the propertime,
place, or audience to joke like this?. Terry, should a devout Christian be
joking like this at all!]
After being asked privately to apologize, Irma immediately apologizes for
asking such a suggestive question.
But, Ray stands up before the whole class and says, " You bunch of whining
cry-babies! You are all faking your offense and there is no way I am going
to apologize to anyone who fakes offense at my humor!!! [Terry, does this
seem like an arrogant and insensitive response from Ray?]
Would you expect an apology from Ray? Would you feel like he was out of
place not only for telling these dirty-minded jokes, but for being
insenstive to Jean's genuine offense, for ignoring the teacher's request to
apologize, and for standing arrogantly before the whole class and making
self-righteous statements?
Or,Terry, would you let it ride and expect everyone to sweep Ray's
inappropriate joking under the rug?
Now, while it is true that we are not in Sunday School here on TT, WHY
SHOULD WE AS CHRISTIANS BEHAVE ANY DIFFERENTLY HERE THAN WE WOULD IN SUNDAY
SCHOOL?
Based on the illustration above, I accept Izzy's apology for asking the
initial question, I stand by my censuring of DaveH for saying what he did,
honor Dean's taking offense as genuine, and stand by my request for an
apology from Dave, not only to Dean, Izzy, and myself, but to ALL OF TT, and
stand by my comment that Dave's response to my request for an apology was
arrogant and insensitive.
Terry, do you get my point?
Perry
From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance Mur says: I have a sense of DaveH that he
ain'tgot it in '
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:48:16 -0600
You misunderstood, my friend. My sense of humor was not tittilated. I did
not even find it funny. I simply recognized that it was offered as humor
with no intention of denigrating Izzy or you. Like I told CD, some people
have their button pushed more easily than others. You see a reason to see
Dave as someone with a filthy mind. I do not. If that causes you to
question my allegiance to my Lord, I can live with it.
Terry
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
So, Terry, if I understand you correctly, your sense of humor is such that
it is titillated by someone asking Izzy about her sexual experiences, and
suggesting that I know something about them, even humorously, especially
before your Christian peers? Hmmm.
From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance Mur says: I have a sense of DaveH that he
ain'tgot it in 'em
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:28:45 -0600
I would like to apologize to everyone for not being offended. I feel
so guilty.
Terry
cd: Little wonder as it was not you wife who was asked these
questions-What
if someone did-How then would you feel then-Also the sinful undertones
of
such a question angers the Holy Spirit.Izzy's husband isn't here to
defend
his wife so I.... Strange that the Holy Spirit didn't speak to you also
as
sin was being prompted.
===========================================================
If my wife was asked the same question by the same person in response
to a question that my wife asked him, I would assume that it was good
natured kidding of one another. If I perceived his comments to be
demeaning or insulting, I would advise him that his comments were
uncalled for and ask him to apologize. I did not see that this time
and do not expect to ever see such from DaveH. He is probably the
closest thing to a gentleman that we have on this list. He and I will
never agree on theology, but that is no reason to treat him unfairly.
If you do not see it the same way, that is your privilege. We all have
little things that drive us up the wall. Terry .
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
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http://www.InnGlory.org
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
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