Then what do you think Gethsemane was all about? He shed blood then, as well as on the cross, and was in such an agony as to almost die. Dying was not the only sacrifice he made. He suffered for sin in Gethsemane, he died on Calvary, in order to overcome death, and made it possible for us to do the same. He had to die, but I am not so sure it had to be on the cross.
cd: Did you even read the below posting I sent? I said that he was praying for the world and His people.In the below passage you wrote:
"but there obviously was the agony of Gethsemene, wherein he suffered for the sins of mankind, to such an extent as to come just short of dying". If he was close to death why did it take beatings and scrounging and hours on the cross to kill Jesus-How was he strong enough to carry the weight of the cross to the place of the skulls? Yes it had to be on a cross .
Isa.53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:.. This all happened on the way to the cross-not in the garden where he only prayed as shown in John 17. Eph 2:16 And2532 that he might reconcile604 both297 unto God2316 in1722 one1520 body4983 by1223 the3588 cross ,4716 having slain615 the358
8 enmity2189 thereby:1722, 846 .Eph 2 states that we were reconciled by the cross not in the garden-If you follow Jesus you will adhere to His word -if you follow another you will adhere to those words. You claim to follow Christ so here are your words to live by.
In a message dated 12/16/2005 8:59:53 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 12/16/2005 6:17:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] sweat
Hmm, good points, Kevin, but I doubt there is really a discrepancy or contradiction, otherwise how are you going to explain the agony of Gethsemene? What he suffered on the cross was more physical, which lead to his death--but there obviously was the agony of Gethsemene, wherein he suffered for the sins of mankind, to such an extent as to come just short of dying. I am not sure why dying had to take place on the cross, eventually, unless it has something to do with overcoming death--which had to be done in order to overcome the effects of Adam's transgression and fall, wherein death was brought into the world. That would make sense to me--but let's face it, the entire matter of his being able to reconcile man with God after the fall of Adam which brought sin and death into the world was a great miracle. I am not sure any man fully comprehends it. We see in part through the glass darkly now, but someday we will see more clearly, hopefully.&
;nbs p;
cd: The simple fact that Jesus walked out of the garden and failed to walk away from the cross (yes, I Know He rose 3 days later) but he had to be carried from the cross should prove the cross was life threaten not the garden-In the Garden he was praying hard for the believers and the world-so hard that blood fell as drops of sweat would fall.John chapter 17 is the prayer he prayed in the Garden -you should read it-good stuff. There have been other Believers-through out history- who have also prayed in this manner hard and had blood also come out of their pours as sweat would.
In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:29:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
