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See Irenaeus & Athanasius 'The unassumed is
unhealed' If (wo)men are to be fully saved, Christ would have to be FULLY
HUMAN.
IMO, if He were not fully human then we are yet in
our sins. This is who Jesus is.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 16, 2006 19:38
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Huh ?? and
Huh?? again
See, The Prophet thinks you are giving me your understanding of my
theology -- only repeating back to me what you think I have
said. Nonsense. And here is a perfect example. "What
is unassumed is unsaved" has absolutely no heritage in my
writings. I don't even know what that means. Just
absolute nonsense surrounded by quotation marks. If it wasn't so
puzzling, it would be hilarious.
In fact, beginning with the words "If I remember correctly
................." I have no clue as to what you are talking
about. And if David thinks I have given you this thought, whatever it is
, well, he is just plain goofy.
jd
--------------
Original message --------------
From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
JD Neither you or Bill are making any points that
matter.
You are so obsessed with doctrine that can not
be validated by God's Word.
If I remember correctly your thing is "what is
unassumed is unsaved" so every vile thing had to be assumed
Actually - it was "at Calvary" ... But it was
not in the person of the Christ neither of you seem
to know.
So, Judy brings up Adam before the
fall, Bill rebutts with a comment about Adam before the fall, and Judy
then changes the subject -- and , and , and what ?
!! I don't get it. Bill's point remains unanswered. One
must ask, "why?" jd
Judy
asks:
Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to
be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall,
...
Bill responds
the first
Adam before the fall did not
need to be saved Judy. We do.
Bill
And judy , well, does what?
The first Adam after
the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God
Bill
and so do we. Judy
From:
Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The first Adam after the fall
did indeed need saving from the wrath of God Bill
and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a
curse along with the rest of creation Bill
Which is spelled out in scripture. Jesus
went to the cross in order to institute a
"New Creation" and this is why he is called the
Second Adam. The first Adam
is earthy or of the earthy (as we are).
The Second Adam is the Lord from heaven.
Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not
Jesus who takes on our likeness although he
passed in all the areas where the first Adam
failed; and was without sin where we
are for the most part loaded down with
it. Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to me
like the second Adam is the Lord from
heaven. I don't see anything earthy about
him. Temptation or no
temptation.
Tell me why he (Jesus)
HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like
the
first Adam before the
fall, ...
Because the first
Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We
do.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 16,
2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk]
love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
so there is no way
that this would be the same concept Bill.
Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not
create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen
1.26).
Yes they did created
the first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which
"likeness"
Adam forfeited when
he chose to go with
Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit.
Thereafter all men
(including us) are born into this world by procreation in the likeness of
the first Adam rather
than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
The only possible way
to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is to
become
conformed to the
image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His
coming
and His willingness
to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our
place.
Laying aside the fact that you are
making much too much of Seth having been born in the image
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for
me what would be wrong, then, with killing someone who
was no longer created in
God's image, but in Adam's),
At the beginnign they
were created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is
starting
over even though it
didn't take too many generations for the whole of humanity (all
but 8 ppl)
to be
destroyed. I don't believe God is interested in
fellowshipping with a bunch of devils.
Judy, I fail to understand why that
should even prevent Christ from being united in his person,
his humanness with his divinity.
I understand.
It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is
something God hates.
The only thing which could have
severed that union was the one thing which he did not do:
sin. Hence in his person, he was
able to undo that which had indeed produced schizophrenia
in the relationship between
humanity and God.
Tell me why he
(Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he
have been like the
first Adam before the
fall, the one who was created? Jesus was not exactly
procreated like
us since he had no
human father so that must mess up your thesis at least a
little.
And were he not like us in every
way, he could not have produced this reconciliation; for
what
he would have done in a flesh
unlike our own would have had no bearing upon human flesh,
and we would therefore still be in
sin. Bill
Not so; all he had to
do was meet God's conditions which apparently involved passing
the
test that A&E
failed and he did that in the wilderness... right after his
baptism.
so there is no
way that this would be the same concept Bill.
Why is that, Judy? Did "they"
not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen
1.26).
Yes they did
created the first Adam in their nature and character
spiritually - which "likeness"
Adam forfeited
when he chose
to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong
fruit.
Thereafter all
men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in the
likeness of
the first Adam
rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
The only possible
way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam
is to become
conformed to the
image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His
coming
and His
willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect
sacrifice in our place.
.
Sent: Monday, January
16, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Fw:
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
NOTDIVINE
OK - I'm asking Bill, what
husband, and what schism?
Oh, I thought you were
married. The bible says that you and your husband (if
you had one) were to become "one" flesh, in other words
the two of you in coming together would be united -- and
not just physically, I might add; it is the marriage
"union" after all. The same is true with God. The bible
teaches that the Lord is "one" and it uses the same word
when saying this; hence there is a oneness or unity
within the nature of God, a coming together of a
plurality in union.
God is a
Spirit (Jn 4:24) so there is no way that this would be
the same concept Bill. Sure the Godhead are One
and united
in
Spirit.
And so, since you suggested
that if Christ be fully God and fully human there must
be a schism, I was just wondering about the schism you
have with your man. Why instead of schism aren't you
united?
In marriage
between humans it is "one flesh" Bill
There would only be a
schism between the two natures of Christ if there
were disunity between the two.
The person of Christ had no
disunity; hence no schism. Bill
There would
have been disunity "big time" if he had a human nature -
just like us and was in fact wholly God ATST;
schizophrenic
would be the
right term. Also "Flesh and blood DO NOT inherit
God's Kingdom" Bill so what would be the
purpose??
OK - I'm asking Bill, what
husband, and what schism?
And while you're at it,
will you explain your schism with your husband, too?
(If this needs
clarification, just ask)
Bill
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Monday,
January 16, 2006 5:24 AM
Subject: Re:
Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF
CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE
----- Original
Message -----
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
1/14/2006 1:07:17 PM
Subject:
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE
HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE
Dean,
I think this is where
"theology" gets itself tied in knots. This is
what JD has been accusing me of for so
long.
How ironic that
his mentor Bill would write something like
this. I think Lance just repeated it to
qualify something.
So their Jesus must have a schism in his
personality (or nature). What about his
saying to Philip "If you have
seen
me you have seen
the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of
his physical body here; so does God
The Father also have a
schismatic personality.
cd: Judy can you define your usage
of 'schismatic'.
Well, yes
and no, DH. I am included in that circle
of love in the way that Christ's humanity
is included in that relationship. But as the humanity of Christ
is not divine, neither am I divine.
cd: Lance at this point- How
do you define
"Divine"?
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