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----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/18/2006 8:19:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus , neither God nor Man
The question is still out there. What person among us indwelt with the Holy Spirit could deny that Jesus Christ, the Seed of David according to the flesh, was born of David's flesh and blood?
Bill
cd: Nor am I denying that Bill, but what of the power of the over shadowing of the Holy Spirit-didn't He also contribute something to the child Jesus.It would seem to me that this debate is not whether Christ was born of the flesh-Judy and I agree on this-but wasn't He also born of God? We think so- you guys don't seem to agree. Am I right bro?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus , neither God nor Man
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?" They said to Him, "The Son of David." He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool" '? "If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his Son?"
Oh, and you know the question that you and the Pharisees can't answer: "If David then calls him 'Lord,' how is he his son?" Well, since Jesus is both God and man, he is both David's Lord (God) and his son (man). That's what Peter is saying in Acts 2.36: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD and Christ (Son of David)."
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus , neither God nor Man
I explained this the other day, Judy; in fact you may return to my post on Acts 3.36 if you like. This is a statement -- and strong affirmation on the part of David -- in regards to Jesus' divine nature. We have been discussing his human nature. Where you confuse the two, I do not. Hence it is not a problem for me to believe that the deity of Jesus predated David, just like it predated Abraham, while later his humanity received their Seed. The one needs not cancel out the other, unless one confuses the two -- but then, of course, one is no longer speaking of Christ.
Work on the following passage, Judy; it should help you with your unbelief:
"For David says concerning him: 'I foresaw the LORD always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.' Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of
God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.'" Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD and Christ."
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus , neither God nor Man
Jesus Himself and I agree with Him rather than with "orthodoxy"... ie:
"While the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them, saying "What think ye of Christ?
Whose son is he?" They say unto him. The son of David. He saith unto them.
"How then doth David in spirit call him Lord saying The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right
hand till I make thine enemies thy footstool?" If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Looks like you are stuck in the same rut as the Pharisees of that day were Bill .... (Matt 22:42-46)
What person among us indwelt with the Holy Spirit could deny that Jesus Christ was born with David's blood
running through his veins?
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David,
the Bright and Morning Star." -- Rev 22.16
"Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne," (Acts 2.29-30).
Although it was by way of his adoption by Joseph that he was qualified to sit on the thrown, it was not by way of adoption that Jesus became the Seed of David: that came to him "according to the flesh":
"Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed (sperma) of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?" (Joh 7.42).
"... concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed (sperma) of David according to the flesh," (Rom 1.3).
"Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed (sperma) of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel," (2Tim 2.8).
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus , neither God nor Man
Are you saying, Judy, that Mary is not of David's lineage? You had better think this through, as Jesus absolutely must be of the Seed of Abraham, which passes through David on its way to the fulfillment of the promise in Christ. "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, 'And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, 'And to your Seed,' who is Christ" (Gal 2.16). And it is not by way of adoption that Abraham's Seed finds fulfillment in Christ. That would be a blasphemous thought: "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made" (Gal 2.19).
You know, Judy, you always say "Show me in Scripture." Well, you have been shown. Now, is that all smoke, or are you going to live by your words?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus , neither God nor Man
Luke writes that Jesus was born of the fruit of David's genitals (Act 2.30):
Not exactly Bill "David being a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne."
Right, so in Matt we have a genealogy that shows Joseph is in David's lineage but he is
hardly the biological father of Jesus is he? Even though Jesus is born in his lineage.
hence he was not some kind of new humanity, freshly brewed with new material, unrelated to fallen humankind;
No, he is human like David was human, born on our side of the fall.
He did not come to this earth through procreation Bill. He did not have a human father - He may have been
born on this side of the fall but he was most definitely not born fallen. One can not be fallen and holy ATST
And to the naysayers Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM"; hence Jesus pre-dated even Abraham, David' predecessor. But it was not his humanity which pre-dated David; it was his divinity. And notice: he did not say that his Father was the I AM, and that he was copying him. No, Jesus said that he (and this before his glorification) is I AM; that is, Yahweh, the LORD who covenants with Abraham.
So?? Noone here disputes his heritage.
Jesus is FULLY GOD and fully man, two realities in one person, united -- but make him anything less than God or anything more than man and you are courting a demon, who is powerless to save you.
Either that or you are courting religious spirits who are filling your head with the doctrines they have been promoting for thousands of years. He doesn't have to be fully anything. He is who the Word of God
says He is - which is the Word made flesh.
Bill
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