Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation

[Taylor]

cd: Respectfully David -Judy has stated dozens of times that she believes Christ came in the flesh. Yet the group keeps denying she denying she said this.Why can't people hear her?   It is not a question of whether she believes in some form of flesh-like substance, Dean. It is a question of whether she believes Jesus came in the flesh identified in Scripture. When John states that Christ came in the flesh, he is speaking of the very same flesh that Peter speaks of in his Pentecost sermon: flesh which came from the fruit of David's loins according to the flesh. Hence when John writes that it is a spirit of anti-Christ which claims that Christ did not "come in the flesh," he is speaking of a denial of this exact same flesh -- the very flesh which he later identifies as the "'Genos' of David" (see Rev 22.16). What is this genos? Our English versions of the Bible follow the KJV when translating this Greek word. They call it "offspring," as in, Christ is the "Offspring of David," which is fine, as long as we are aware that genos is also the root for our English word "genome," which is defined as "the ordering of genes in a haploid set of chromosomes of a particular organism; the full DNA sequence of an organism; 'the human genome contains approximately three billion chemical base pairs'" (WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University). Am I arguing that John understood the intricacies of the human genome when using this word to speak of Christ's humanity? No, I am not -- and neither did the translators of the KJV, nor even most of the translators of our newer versions. But Jesus did, and it was he whom John was quoting in this passage (and this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!). Yes, it is possible that John wrote knowing only that Jesus was a direct descendant of David, but Jesus spoke knowing full well that it would be two thousand years before the full impact of his utterance could even begin to be felt!   And so, Dean, I ask you: What exactly is being denied when John speaks of the denial of Christ come in the flesh? It is the entire human substance of the Christ of Scripture: his complete human genome, nearly three billion pairs! What "flesh" is there left to affirm once one has denied its entire DNA sequence? My goodness, Dean, it is time to recognize that it is not just the Gnostics who deny a human Jesus. It is anyone who denies that Jesus Christ is the "Genetic Descendant of David"!   Dean, it is one thing not to know what we do about genes and genetics and the human genome (all words which find their source in genos), and to then assume that Christ's flesh was made of some sort of substance similar to but unlike that of fallen humanity; but it borders on blasphemy to know what we do about the human genos and then claim that the flesh which John identifies as "Offspring" is not both explicitly and genetically linked to that of fallen David and Abraham -- and Adam.    Bill     ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation       ----- Original Message ----- From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/1/2006 7:40:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation I don't hear Judy saying that a spirit taught her that the flesh of Jesus was not genetically related to his ancestors.  If she did, then we could readily judge that this spirit is not of God and direct her to reject this spirit.  I think Judy's perceptions come from her framework of understanding the Bible.  Furthermore, her lack of knowledge about the physical nature of Jesus does not rise to the level of blasphemy.  On the contrary, it is her sense of protecting Christ from anything that even sounds blasphemous that causes her to respond the way she does.  It is kind of like if you like somebody so much and think the world of them, and your assumption of good parents is that they would never raise their voice to their children and somebody tells them that this person yelled at their child.  Your first response might be, no way, you are mistaken, he would never do that.  Not until that person comes and says, "yes, I did raise my voice" would you realize that you were wrong.  Then you w ould have some rethinking to do about whether or not yelling at children is wrong in every situation.   Many of us know from the Bible that Jesus went into the Temple several times and kicked out the people who were buying and selling animals for their sacrifices commanded by Torah.  Most people in our culture are ignorant of the Bible and when this is described to them, they immediately deny that it could be true.  Their perception of Jesus is someone who is so meek and loving that he never offended anyone, and for someone to characterize him as acting this way, well, it seems outright blasphemous.  I think this also somewhat describes Judy's motivation for not acknowledging that Jesus's body was physically descended from David. --------------------------------------- cd: Respectfully David -Judy has stated dozens of times that she believes Christ came in the flesh. Yet the group keeps denying she denying she said this.Why can't people hear her? ------------------------------------------------------   David M.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation The only knowledge of Christ available to us is that which comes by way of the Holy Spirit. To blaspheme Christ in this age is to blaspheme his Spirit. "By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God."   Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:22 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation Perceptive post Lance?  Give me a break!  You ppl are so into opinions ... Morality is a thing to be desired so why malign this also by adding the "self" like you know something that nobody else is aware of.  You've not even heard the first one of them preaching on the street have you? To JD .. blaspheming the name of Jesus is not what gets you in trouble, it is blaspheming the Holy Spirit that is the unpardonable sin and you don't appear to have a clue about Him. Judyt -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.