Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM

Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:12:03 -0800

Like A W Pink who went way out there?
 
"Mr. Pink used to be a contributor to our magazine. His articles on GLEANINGS IN GENESIS are good, and we printed them in book form. But when he began to teach his frightful doctrines which make the God of love a monster we broke fellowship with him. The book you read is totally unscriptural, It is akin to blasphemy. It presents God as a being of injustice and maligns His holy character. The book denies that our blessed Lord died for the ungodly. According to Pink's perversions He died for the elect only. You are not the only who has been led into darkness by this book. Whoever the publisher is and whoever stands behind the circulation of such a monstrous thing has a grave responsibility. It is just this kind of teaching that makes atheists." OUR HOPE Vol. 37, No. 11 May 1931, p.64 Quoted by Fisk in DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AND HUMAN FREEDOM, p.24
 
 
(Some editions of Pinks books have had the most odious portions removed)
 
"Has God foreordained certain ones to damnation?--- that God decreed that the non-elect should choose the course they follow we now undertake to prove--- therefore in giving birth and being those He knew would reject Christ. He necessarily created them unto damnation page100 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
 
He purposed either that this one should spend Eternity in Heaven or that this one should spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire. page 101 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
 
Without faith there is no salvation---"He that believeth not shall be damned hence if there are some of Adam's descendants to whom He purposed not to give faith, it must be because He ordained that they should be damned."  page 101 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
 
God decreed SIN:  Chapter & Verse????
"Clearly it was the divine will that sin should enter the world or it would not have done so. God had the power to prevent it. Nothing ever comes to pass except what He decreed--- Gods decree that sin should enter this world was a secret hid in Himself." 
page 61 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD  
 
God is foreordained all things: like Rape - Murder?
"God had foreordained everything that comes to pass--- though He had predestinated the fall of our first parents, yet in no sense was He the‚Instigator or approver of their sins, and their accountability was left entirely unimpaired---The decree of God in no way infringes on man's moral agency, for it neither forces nor hinders man's will, though it orders and bounds its actions." page 227 GLEANINGS FROM SCRIPTURES


Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
Sent: 3/11/2006 7:06:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM

Judy: Bill's 'concept of humanity' is biblical. IFF it in any way concurs with someone else's biblical understanding than their biblical conclusions are similar/identical. Bill has never 'fled' TT as a result of being 'bested'! It pains him to witness, day after day, the mangling of the scriptures and the puerile thinking reflected therein. The most substantive conversations on TT have included Bill Taylor, John Smithson and, David Miller. (honourable mention to the dearly departed: Debbie, Caroline and Jonathan) Lastly, the demeanour of Dave Hansen is a model that IFO appreciate.
cd: Lance- Bill got his clock cleaned on a regular basics on this site: Izzy or I ,either one, could have him for breakfast at whim. Calvinism has bound his mind and prevented truth from entering in-But if he ever got over that he would indeed be a Philosopher to reckon with-but as is he is only a babe in Christ.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 11, 2006 06:38
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM

She is not claiming any such thing, the victory always belongs to Christ and those who say what He
says. You obviously have not read the "whole archives" JD.  She did just what she said and the amazing
thing (to me) was that Bill stuck around at least until this point. But this did not exhaust the subject of
personhood. All it proved was Bill's Calvinistic concept of humanity.
 
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:04:46 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And while some stand atop the mountain, claiming victory for one's self, the words of a master survive on their own merits to those who have eyes with which to see. 
 
:-)
Bill's comments are worth reading again. 
 
jd
 

From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I remember that well…I cornered poor BT with the futility of his “logic”, and the next thing you knew he (again) disappeared from TT. Read the whole archives and see for yourself. J iz
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 
FYI: Izzy, Judy, Kevin & Dean.
THANKS TO THE BISHOP FOR THIS FINE WORK!
 
 
Sent: March 10, 2006 11:52
Subject: Re: JOHN: An extended discussion on Person/Persons/Personhood including you, BT and, DM
 
Well,  just a few weeks ago -  Jan or the first of Feb.
 
And a rather good discussion  (Bill was in on this one) back in July  of last year. 
 
This is Bill sometime around the end of July of 05
 
Okay, I will address your question and then try to summarize my position. I chose not to answer your question for the following reason: implicit in your wording is the assumption that we can separate the spirit aspect of personhood from the other aspects, the whole of which integrates to form what we call "persons," and that we can then address that aspect in abstention of the others. I do not accept that premise as it relates to our discussion, and therefore could not answer your question in the form it was structured.   
When the biblical authors speak to living subjects of their present or prior state of death, they are speaking metaphorically of their entire person; e.g., when Paul writes that his readers had been dead in trespasses and sin, he is speaking of their entire state of being and not just about their spiritual condition. The spirit aspect of their personhood was no more dead and no more alive than the rest of their being. He is speaking metaphorically about the hopelessness and helplessness of their entire former existence in the depravity of their fallen state. I mplicit in his use of the term "dead" is the conveyance that they could do nothing of themselves to remedy the fact that they were doomed in that former state.    
I hope this will satisfy your request and trust that we have pretty much exhausted the need to continue this discussion.  
Thank you for your patience and the charity with which you conducted yourself. It is a pleasure to converse with you when we are not nipping at each others heels. God bless you, 
 
Bill
 

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