DAVID?
----- Original Message -----
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: March 17, 2006 14:46
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
I found DM's own explanation of what he thinks to be quite clear. Maybe you
could ask him to restate it in Canada-ese? :-) iz
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:01 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
Iz:Firstly, I WAS referring to myself and, NOT to David. Will you, kindly,
restate David's position in your own words?
I know that there are numerous 'readings' of Genesis 1 - 11. The writers of
Gen 1 - 11 meant something in what they wrote. There exists a reality
concerning all of the matters addressed in Gen 1 - 11.
There are evolutionists who are Christians. There are various kinds of
creationists who are Christians. The majority of Christians simply adopt a
don't know/don't care position.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: March 17, 2006 00:17
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
Lance, in all kindness may I submit to you the possibility that YOU might be
the one with the "cranial density" problem? I found DM's statement to be
quite lucid. izzy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:38 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
Lance, upon reading David's post below, exhibits 'cranial density' his own
self. Though I'd thought we would be further ahead, we're not. Why not
submit this to David Miller for a rewrite? He's good at that sort of thing
:).
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: March 16, 2006 11:29
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
My understanding of Gen. 1-11 is not going to be exactly the same as
Judy's
in the sense that if I wrote a commentary on the chapters and then Judy
did
the same, they would differ much in the way that the different gospel
accounts differ from one another. However, if we are both filled with the
same Spirit, we will hear one another and receive from one another such
that
through our communion and fellowship with each other, we would easily come
to speak the same thing about these passages. We might even continue to
emphasize different points within the text, but there is this work of God
within both of us that is bringing us to a unity of knowledge as well as a
unity of faith (which is based upon knowledge).
Now much of this concerns knowledge that comes through the Spirit.
Sometimes people speculate about issues with the mind, especially about
these passages that you mention. Such speculations may diverge greatly,
but
such is not really important in the grand scheme of things. From my
perspective, it seems to me that Judy does not do a lot of this
speculating
and probably sees little value in it. I enjoy speculating and considering
different possibilities of truth that might coincide with the Biblical
text.
However, I always distinguish between such speculation and knowledge that
comes from the Spirit or knowledge that is directly being communicated by
the sacred text.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
David:Please distinguish 'believe the same thing about these passages'
from
'exact same understanding at this point in time'. It may be that
resolution
to the 'sticking point' may be at hand.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: March 16, 2006 09:31
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
Lance, I think the point Judy is making is that God's Spirit will lead
the
believer to believe the same thing about these passages. I don't think
she
means that every true believer will have the exact same understanding at
this point in time.
You mentioned employing 1 through 4. I actually have a lot of concern
about
ever employing number 4. People use emotions a lot in determining what
they
believe, but I think that is usually a mistake. When people go with
emotion
over logic, that is a mistake. Furthermore, emotions often cloud logic,
and
cause people to embrace falsehood. What do you think?
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
'ALL WHO ARE TAUGHT BY GOD WILL SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT GENESIS CHAPTERS
1 - 11'
Have we just been provided with a perfect standard for determining who
is/who is not 'taught by God'?
----- Original Message -----
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 16, 2006 07:57
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable?
I disagree with Lance.
I say that all who are taught by God will say the same thing about
Genesis
Chapters 1 through 11
These are the ones who will all be saying the same thing in the end time
and
this is the "unity" Christ
prayed for... The definition of "believer" should be "one who speaks as
the
oracles of God"
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:38:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Take Genesis chapters 1 - 3 or, if you prefer 1 - 11. Is TRUTH taught
therein? Yes! Do all believers agree upon the TRUTH that is taught
therein?
No!.....................WHY? Further, upon employing 1 - 4 below will the
outcome necessarily be other than 'NO'?
From: David Miller
I'm going to try and weigh in a bit here.
I hear from Lance that sometimes truth and one's interpretation of truth
does not coincide.
I hear from Judy that sometimes one's interpretation of truth does
coincide.
I agree with these two statements. Do both of you? I think you both do,
but if not, please speak up.
I hear something else from Judy (and Izzy too), and that is that Lance
seems
to have no basis by which we can know whether or not our interpretation
of
the truth is accurate. This creates a problem in discussing truth,
because
then we all just have opinions and nobody knows the truth. Lance, do you
understand this dilemma? (By the way, I'm with Izzy & Judy in this
concern,
so please try to address it if you can.)
What standards of truth do we have, Lance? How can we know the truth?
How
can we know that we do know the truth?
1. The Bible?
2. The Spirit?
3. Logic?
4. Emotions?
What role do each of these play in knowing truth?
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
So what you are saying Lance is that there is no "objective truth?" That
in
fact if I say dog, you could be hearing cat? which means there is no
such
thing as a dog because this is just my interpretation? And if I write
exactly what is written in scripture - because IYO truth changes
generationally and according to culture then it really isn't truth
because
they could be saying dog and I might be hearing cat. Is this what you
are
saying Lance?
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:47:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I've no problem acknowledging the 'fixity and eternality' of truth. I do,
however, have a problem with some persons interpretations. I'd say to you
that which I said to Kevin: Once you (Judy) are convinced that your
statements concerning the truth (Scriptural quotations on any subject)
are
themselves the truth then, even the possibility of conversation is over.
From: Judy Taylor
I am saying that I don't understand your question Lance - so it looks
like
you have excused yourself again.
Why are you so full of conditions - is it really that difficult to say
what
you mean?
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:31:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
When you answer my question then, I'll 'give it a shot' as it were.
From: Judy Taylor
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:02:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Would you be so kind Judy, as to restate 'apprehend and apply' so as to
demonstrate to me that therein lies the meaning 'truth is NOT fixed and
eternal..'?
I say that truth IS fixed and eternal so would you please explain what
you
mean by the above ...
Further Judy, should we actually be attempting to exhibit a 'new and
improved' TT, was the last 'shot' necessary? ('dancing around a calf').
I think so Lance, and BTW it is not a "shot" We all come into this world
with hearts full of idolatry, I examine my own daily. Remember, we are
all
"by nature" children of wrath. That is unless we walk after the "new
nature"
From: Judy Taylor
Not so Lance; Truth is fixed and eternal in every generation. God does
not
change and neither does His Word
which is forever sealed in heaven. As Dean warns - better be sure you
are
not dancing around a calf.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:42:17 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Each generation must apprehend then apply the truth in a manner
appropriate
to its time. This is but one reason IFO favour newer translations of all
sacred texts, including the text of scripture. Some recent christian
teaching/writing is an asset to the believing community. FWIW, I'd dance
to
that tune.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 14, 2006 15:46
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
cd: No, it was not honest. But then again since when did this dancing
brotherhood ever worry about honesty-or truth-or The Truth? They are a
fine
testimony for their group thinking religion-which they claim is ongoing
revelation given by the decision of the majority of the group. They claim
to
decide if God is Male / Female or whatever- I asked them : What if the
majority decided that God is a calf and to date have gotten no reply to
this
question..
----- Original Message -----
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 3/14/2006 11:58:47 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed
So why did jd inquire of you about them? Was that honest??? iz
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and
believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to
be
the topic.
From: ShieldsFamily
Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as
do
the rest of us. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH?
They are missed on this forum by some.
jd
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