Hi,

Since I’m not participating at this IETF, I use this opportunity to state my 
support of everything Bob says here.

( Maybe this can also lead to a broader recognition that CC is indeed a network 
layer function…  AQM is a reminder of this truth. )

Cheers,
Michael



> On 25 Jul 2022, at 13:49, Bob Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Martin,
> 
> On 24/07/2022 17:38, Martin Duke wrote:
>> In practice, TCPM does most standards-track work in this area. RMCAT has a 
>> specific problem, and TSVWG by definition is a grab bag for anything else 
>> that doesn't fit.
>> 
>> Modulo the debate about this replacing RMCAT, TCPM and TSVWG would no longer 
>> be the venue for this work.
> 
> [BB] Returning to the issue of whether AQM should be added: 
> https://github.com/martinduke/congestion-control-charter/issues 
> <https://github.com/martinduke/congestion-control-charter/issues>
> I would like to see this question discussed in the session later today. 
> 
> If that happened, aqm would be added to your above list of things removed 
> from the tsvwg charter.
> 
> Indeed I would tend not to support the idea of a separate CC WG unless AQM 
> was also included.
> Reason: I would be concerned that the amount of CC standardization work will 
> be too low to sustain active attention and attendance. 
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 8:47 PM Toerless Eckert <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Martin: General question. Just curious.
>> 
>> Is the proposed charter meaning to take away items from existing WGs
>> chartre, for example in the hope to give those existing groups
>> breathing room for other work (TSVWG always needs that for example ;-).
>> Or do you think this is all new and nothing of this was part of other
>> WG charter...
>> 
>> Cheers
>>     Toerless
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 03:49:11PM -0700, Martin Duke wrote:
>> > Hello Transport Enthusiasts,
>> > (bcc: TCPM, QUIC, and ICCRG)
>> > 
>> > Zahed and I would like to invite you to the TSVAREA meeting at IETF 114
>> > (Monday 13:30 local time), where we will be having a more action-oriented
>> > discussion than usual.
>> > 
>> > *TL;DR* the way we do congestion control standards is written down in RFC
>> > 5033 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5033.html 
>> > <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5033.html>>, and is no longer
>> > aligned with how congestion control innovation happens or the family of
>> > transport protocols that use standard congestion control. The IETF is
>> > largely irrelevant to new congestion control deployments. So we'll discuss
>> > a proposal to fix it. This meeting will have some BoF-like elements but it
>> > is not formally a BoF.
>> > 
>> > In consultation with several stakeholders, we've devised a strategy to
>> > address this:
>> > 
>> > * Colin Perkins, IRTF chair, has agreed to add at least one chair to ICCRG
>> > (I'm sure Colin would welcome volunteer candidates!). While retaining its
>> > hosting presentations role, there will be renewed emphasis on serving as a
>> > forum to produce experimental RFCs, with a charter update if necessary.
>> > 
>> > * The Transport ADs are going to consider chartering a new IETF working
>> > group to update the administrative framework for congestion control
>> > standardization, and potentially adopt any proposals that are sufficiently
>> > mature for the standards track. We've formulated a proposed charter. Please
>> > consider it a starting point for discussion.
>> > https://github.com/martinduke/congestion-control-charter/ 
>> > <https://github.com/martinduke/congestion-control-charter/>
>> > I ask you to review this document before attending. It answers many of the
>> > questions you may already have.
>> > 
>> > In Philadelphia, we hope to answer as many of the following questions as
>> > possible, in order:
>> > * Is there rough consensus on the problem to solve?
>> > * Are the deliverables right?
>> > * Are there people willing to take responsibility for those deliverables?
>> > (The meeting is over if the answer is "no")
>> > * Does the proposed charter need changes?
>> > * Is anyone especially excited to chair this WG?
>> > 
>> > Please come to Philadelphia having thought about these questions and
>> > prepared to answer them. You are also welcome to share thoughts on the
>> > tsv-area list; all other recipients have been Bcced: so that the rest of
>> > the thread will go to only that list. Subscribe if you want to track the
>> > discussion.
>> > 
>> > Although charter wordsmithing is somewhat premature, you are also welcome
>> > to file issues and PRs on the github linked above.
>> > 
>> > See you there,
>> > Martin and Zahed
>> > Your friendly Transport ADs
>> 
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > tcpm mailing list
>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm 
>> > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> ---
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> 
> -- 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/ 
> <http://bobbriscoe.net/>

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