On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Andy Bierman <[email protected]> wrote: > >
I'm sorry to be the downer but I got several no options. > .... >> It's clear that the tg team can not make the transition from sqlobject >> to sqlalchemy any easier, so I'm definitely not arguing for that. What >> I'm saying is that if many users are in the same boat (transition to >> 2.x from 1.x would be easy from a framework point of view, but hard >> from an ORM point of view because of the sqlobject - sqlalchemy >> transition) then perhaps not so much emphasis needs to go into >> creating stepping stones such as 1.1 and 1.5. But maybe many other >> users are not ORM limited, they perhaps really need stepping stones >> for the framework itself. >> You got that wrong. TG1.1 default ORM is SQLAlchemy. And SO is a second class citizen there. The main purpose of TG1.1 (from a migration point of view) is to get you in shape for TG2.0 Now keep in mind 1.0 can mean several things. Going from "stock" TG1.0 to TG2.0 will be a real problem, because you have to change all mayor component, (ORM,template and "backend") TG1.1 deals with the two simplest, TG2 deals with the complex one. Maybe for you SO->SA is a big transition, but it's nowere near close to CP->pylons. In fact moving from SO -SA shouldn't be more than a day of work. Assuming you already learned SA. Now for people that (like TG1) went deep down into CP2 stuff, which was needed for many things, going to TG2 will probably be a hard re-write (this is the main reason we are commited to support 1.x in 2009), keep in mind I'm talking about BIG apps here. Therefore I strongly suggest everyone to move to TG1.1 first (or TG1.0 + genshi + SA) and then to TG2.0 On the other hand SQLObject, sadly is a dying framework, it's hard to work with and hard to debug, I don't think we should add support for it in the core of tg2. If someone is willing to provide a tgext.sqlobject package I'm fine with it, but I strongly disagree with it being in the core. > > I agree with you. > I do not see the value in the 1.1 and 1.5 branches, especially > since the 2.0 release will be out before them (!). > This is really a technicality, 1.1 is at least 95% done, the only reason it isn't out is because our 1.x release manager is 1- helping push 2.0 closer to 2.0.0 2- busy with RL That said current plan is to have 1.1.0 released before (a couple of weeks/days) or together with 2.0.0. > In my case, I probably have more invested in Kid templates than > SQLObject, but they are both a concern. All the docs and examples > seem to be for Genshi, so I do not know if sticking with Kid templates > is a such a viable option. Extensive use of TG1 identity is another > issue. > Kid-.Genshi transition is brain death, they are 90% alike except for 2 very rare functions, http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/GenshiRecipes#MigratingfromKidtoGenshi one if which is used in TG1.0 master.kid. The other wasn't present. To be honest anyone that today hasn't migrated to genshi is because of laziness, it's several orders of magnetide faster (http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/GenshiPerformance) , as well as supported better. Any kid-genshi transition, should be about 4 LOC changes. > I am still planning to use TG2 when it is ready, > even though it will be a lot of 2 steps back and > 1 step forward to do it. IMO, TG is the best > WEB-dev platform available, so it is worth it. > > IMO, ready is: > - production code release if you don't help us test it then we can't do that :) Seriously I got a production site running on TG2 for 3 months now. And believe me today it is a low more stable, specially because our code coverage went up a LOT (thanks chris :P) > - good docs on all aspects of TG1 to TG2 transition This is a very big task, yet I have started on it. http://docs.turbogears.org/2.0/RoughDocs/1.1Migration Yet again if people don't point out what's missing we can't provide it. > - good docs on new TG2 features http://turbogears.org/2.0/docs/index.html is great, again please provide specific suggestions. > - complete tg-admin toolbox support, especially > widget browser for ToscaWidgets I'm sure you haven't been following TG2 development but the toolbox is gone(this decision is not final). All relevant components are still there. sorry for the svn link, this I wrote after tg2.0b2, will be out together with b3. http://svn.turbogears.org/docs/2.0/docs/main/CommandLine.rst as for the widget browser http://toscawidgets.org/documentation/WidgetBrowser/ I couldn't find the URL of the running version, others will provide it, Alberto we should add that to the menu bar at tw.org. > - ability to co-exist with TG1 without virtualenv > this has been like that since day one. my sample 1.1-2.0 migration project (linked above) will do that (the tutorial is not finish) but the code is able to run in parallel, that project will be both a tg1 AND tg2 project. As for the venv, you should seriously consider that a default. So yes spammcam will run in tg2 and tg1 inside a venv or outside it. > Wishlist: > - subversion support huh? > - more recipes > - more widgets more? please give specific requests, in fact you could write some. > - identity-aware menu system what? if you mean something like a default menu that will change depending on the user, this is nothing that should be in TG2 core, if you want to write a TW widget for it I'm glad to provide support. But this is too app specific to be part of the framework. > > I am not saying the docs are not good now. > They are good, but I find the recipe doc format easier to use. > So it seems to me TG2 is ready for you, why don't you hop in? it won't bite you ;) > >> Cheers, >> Daniel > > Andy > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TurboGears" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
