Comment to your @Conversation annotation remark inline.

On 11/17/06, Pete Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This is a fairly confusing area and I welcome your efforts to clarify
this.

On 16/11/06, Ignacio Silva-Lepe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> After looking at (the previous) version 0.9 of the C&I spec
> and a discussion with Jim and Mike Rowley on the
> conversational services section, I am going to try to
> summarize my current understanding, Jim, Mike, please
> jump in if I mis-state or forget to mention something here.
>
> A conversation is indicated by a @Conversational
> annotation on an interface and a @Scope annotation on an
> implementation. The interface annotation denotes the
> contract with a client. The implementation annotation
> pertains to the maintenance of its instance state with
> two basic cases: (1) when the @Scope is conversational
> then the container keeps track of instance state, as well as
> handling conversation id creation and propagation, (2) when
> the @Scope is not conversational (i.e., it is stateless,
> request, or composite),


What are the definitions of thes different scopes? I thought the
implementation scope was tied to the lifecycle of a service/component?

the implementation must keep track
> of its state, based on the conversation id, which is still
> handled by the container. Notice that all this seems to apply
> to Java interfaces only. Similar statements should also
> apply to WSDL interfaces as well, which is after all another
> way to specify a contract with a client. It is also worth
> mentioning that it does not seem to make sense to
> annotate an implementation as having conversational when
> it does not implement a conversational interface. Otherwise,
> it would not be clear what conversation id to maintain its
> instances for.
>
> A conversation is an interaction between two parties: a client
> and a service components. Each conversation is indicated
> by a (possibly distinct) conversation id. Depending on whether
> the service component is remotable or not, a conversation id
> is auto-propagated to it by the container. That is, in a
> conversation A->B, where B is defined by a conversational
> interface, if B is remotable then a new conversation id is created
> if one did not exist between A and B, regardless of whether A
> is conversational or not, or remotable or not. But if B is not
> remotable and A is conversational, then when there was no
> prior conversation between A and B, and A invokes B as part
> of a conversation with a client, then A propagates the
> conversation id from that client.
> Using the example in Fig. 1, Sec 1.5.2 of the 0.9 C&I spec, the
> following pattern is illustrated: A->B->C<-A. Here, B and C
> are non-remotable and conversational, which means that any
> conversation id from A is propagated from A to B to C and
> from A to C, meaning that A uses the same instance of C as
> B does. In particular, if A is conversational and invoked by a
> client, then it propagates the client's id as above. If a is non-
> conversational and it invokes B and C in sequence, then
> it would still propagate the same conversation id to both.
>
> A service component implementation can also use a
> @Conversation annotation



Do you mean interface here rather than implementation? You state above
that
the @Conversation annotation is on the interface.


Actually, I mean implementation. We may want to make the
syntax less ambiguous, for instance using @ConversationScope
in this case, similar to a note in version 0.9. But the intent is
that the attributes being specified pertain only to the implementation
and not to the contract with the client.

(previously called @Session) to
> indicate conversation attributes such as maxIdleTime and
> maxAge. These attributes apply to each instance of the
> component (i.e., for each individual conversation). Notice
> that if two components participate in the same conversation
> (by virtue of having the same id propagated to them) they
> may still time out independently as given by their respective
> attribute values. For instance, in the example of Fig. 1 above,
> B may have a maxIdleTime of 100ms and C 500ms. If the
> conversation initially touches B but does not touch it again
> for at least 100ms, then B will time out regardless of whether
> the conversation continues to touch C. And when the
> conversation tries to touch B again, an exception is thrown.
>
> Ok, this does not claim to be a complete replacement of
> Sec. 1.5.2, but it tries to clarify some of the main elements
> of it. The intention is to try to have a more concrete basis
> on which to start implementing conversational services in
> Tuscany. As the work progresses and people participate in
> the discussion we may be able to come up with a (more)
> complete understanding that we can feed back to the spec.
>
>
>
> On 11/15/06, Ignacio Silva-Lepe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > So, are the multiple complementation instances also of one
> > or more types? You don't seem to be saying otherwise.
> > I guess this is probably motivated by transactions, with a
> > conversation id playing the role of a transaction context?
> >
> > It may be useful to try to attach (some of) these properties
> > to the conversation id, although if we really have more than
> > one service component type (or perhaps even if there is just
> > one) then there is no single set of properties. For instance,
> > if I can tell that there is a single maxAge value for a
> > conversation, then then the conversation id (or context) can
> > be a good place to maintain this value and enforce it at each
> > client and service instance.
> >
> > I am kind of thinking out loud here, but I am trying to make
> > sense of requirements like starting a new conversation at a
> > reference invoke after a conversation has ended.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >  On 11/15/06, Jim Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 15, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Ignacio Silva-Lepe wrote:
> > >
> > > > The C&I spec seems to imply that a conversation involves a single
> > > > service component and that's what I have been assuming so far, but
> > > > I would like to make sure that the restriction indeed applies.
> > > >
> > > There can be multiple component implementation instances. The
> > > boundaries of a conversation are determined by the last remotable
> > > service the request passed through. We will likely need an
> > > interceptor to handle this.
> > >
> > > > If the restriction does apply then we'll need to be careful about
> > > > which
> > > > conversation id is the current thread when a client makes an
> > > > invocation to guarantee that not more than one component is
> > > > invoked with the same conversation id.
> > > >
> > > > If the restriction turns out not to apply, then some issues arise,
> > > > including:
> > > > - the scope and placement of the @Session annotation - currently
> > > > this annotation is to be specified in the implementation of a
> > > > component but it specifies attributes pertaining to the entire
> > > > conversation (btw, it may be good to rename this annotation
> > > > to @Conversation or @ConversationScope)
> > > I think it should be renamed to @Conversation but still be specified
> > > on the implementation since it is more about the latter's contract
> > > with the container. I'll get that as an issue in the spec.
> > >
> > > > - coordinating the end of a conversation - when a service
component
> > > > in a conversation ends the conversation, presumably all other
> > > > components will not be in the conversation any more; this may not
> > > > be very difficult but only worth doing if required
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
>


--
Pete


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