Greetings Alan, et al, On 7/14/07, ALAN GAULD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What do you find challenging?
I find _ALL OF IT_ [computer programming] challenging. Perhaps that is why computer programming is my hobby. If it wasn't challenging, it wouldn't hold my interest for very long. Part of my hobby is collecting used-books about computer programming. I have shelves filled with books about BASIC, Pascal, C, C++, Intel 8086 Assembly, Perl, and a smattering of others. I think I've maybe read one of them from cover to cover. Otherwise, I use them for the examples they contain. They are a library of code snippets in various languages. I have several old computers with various OSes on them, that have various old compilers and interpreters installed. What does this have to do with Python? First of all, Python is the latest 'flavor' of programming language that I'm trying to learn. One of the best things about learning Python is this list: Excerpts from: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ------------------------------------ 1. Tutor -- Discussion for learning programming with Python. 2. This [Tutor] list is for folks who want to ask questions regarding how to learn computer programming with the Python [programming] language. 3. ...[M]any feel [Python] is a good first language, because it makes it easy to express the fundamental concepts of programming such as data structures and algorithms with a syntax which many find easy to read and write. 4. Folks interested in learning about programming with Python are encouraged to join, as are folks interested in helping others learn. While the list is called tutor, anyone, whether novice or expert, can answer questions. 5. If individuals wish to start off-line conversations about a particular concept and become one-on-one tutor/tutee, that's fine. If either party wants to summarize what they learned for others to benefit, that's fine too. ----------------------------------------------- Re:#1. This is a mailing list devoted to "learning programming". Specifically, the Python language is used to learn programming. Re:#2. People who are interested in learning HOW TO program a computer may ask questions on this list. They are encouraged to ask their questions, using the Python programming language. Re:#3. Pyhton is considered a good 'first language' to learn. It doesn't have to be your first language, but if it is, it is probably a good one to start with. Why? Because the concepts of computer programming are considered by many people to be easy to grasp and express in the Python language. Re:#4. Anyone can answer other's questions, even if they are novices. The list is 'inclusive'. Anyone, no matter what their level of experience is, is invited to join and participate in the discussions. Re:#5. The discussions can take place on-list, or off-list. If they take place off-list, participants are encouraged to post a summary of what they've learned, so others can benefit from the off-list discussion. Whew! That is way cool! That probably means that you probabl;y won't hear too much "RTFM" on this list, right? =) However, one of the NICE things about Python is that there is an abundance of documentation written at every imaginable level, available online, for free (or for whatever it costs you to be online). Sometimes, "RTFM" [Read The Fine Manual] is an appropriate first answer to a question. However, just the reply, "RTFM", usually isn't enough... most experienced programmers are aware that many less experienced programmers probably aren't very familiar with the exisiting documentation yet. In fact, it is quite possible that a new user to the Tutor list is ALSO a new computer user, AND new to the Internet, who is also interested in learning how to program their new machine. (After all, the most fascinating thing about computers is: they are programmable.) So, an "RTFM" reply (if deemed appropriate as an answer to a question), is usually accompanied by a link to where The Fine Manual is located, ie. a viable URL [Web address]. A Noob, or Newbie can be Anyone! If a person continues learning throughout their lifespan, then they will always be a Noob at something. No one is born just knowing everything, automatically. However, some have been gifted with more raw intelligence than others, and they usually learn more quickly than someone who isn't as gifted. Those people are encouraged to stay on the list and help others learn Python, even as they are learning more advanced aspects of the language. So, after all that is said and done.... the question seems to be: How do we ask and answer questions on the Tutor list, so as not to be flamed? (Asbestos underwear are mighty uncomfortable!) 1. It is usually considered good Network "ettiquette" to read a FAQ [Frequently Asked Questions] about a mailing list before, or shortly after joining the mailing list. The FAQ for Tutor is located at: ____________ and is maintained by: _____________. 2. It is usually considered good mailing list "ettiquette" to either read some of the archives of the mailing list, OR, to read the daily postings of the mailing list for awhile, BEFORE posting to the list. The archives for Tutor are located here: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/ and a searchable archive of the list is located here: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Browse/Threaded/python-Tutor Why? Well, for one thing, you get a "feel" for the list, and also get to know who some of the people on the list are. 3. On the Tutor list, a "good" question has at least the following information: A. Platform you're working on: a. Operating System? b. Version of Python? i. IDE? ii. other? B. State the problem you're trying to solve. C. Include some Python source code. 4. When answering a question on the Tutor list, a good answer should contain the following information: A. If deemed appropriate, OR, if "RTFM" is the knee-jerk reaction: include a viable URL (a viable URL doesn't get a 404) to the reference you are recommending. a. If the page you are recommending is huge, give enough info for the person to find the information in the web page. B. Avoid the overuse of acronyms, unless you explain what the acronym stands for, somewhere in the answer. C. Verbose answers are ususally better than terse answers. 5. Encourage people to solve their own programming problem. This is part of the "learning computer programming" nature of the list. =) What else? I'm sure there is way more. I'm still looking for a Python Programming Summer Camp in my area. 8^D -- bhaaluu at gmail dot com _______________________________________________ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor