That "Low Bar" line was fantastic wasn't it? Helen Lewis is an interesting woman. She's British and quite prolific - that piece feels like it was written within the last 72 hours or so! As well as The Atlantic, she works for Private Eye magazine in the UK. If you're unfamiliar, this is kind of a cross between The Onion and, well, I'm not sure, because it also does real journalism and has gossip/insider stuff as well.
She is also an occasional guest on the British Have I Got News For You (usually appearing once a series), because she is funny and has a fast wit. She also has a Substack that's free and doesn't push you to upgrade which she's been writing for years (https://helenlewis.substack.com/ which has some extra stuff on her Saudi trip) *and *she appears on podcasts. She is kind-of the co-host of Strong Message Here which she co-presents with Veep creator, Amando Iannucci for the BBC, although she's away in the current run which instead is using some rotating guests. But go back and listen to some of their short summer recommendations. She also pops up on Private Eye's podcast, Page 94. Oh, and she's also had a recent book out, The Genius Myth, which I have bought, but have not yet read. If I'm coming across as a bit of Lewis fanboy, perhaps I am, but perhaps it's just that our interests intersect quite a lot. I thought I'd been following the Riyadh comedy festival stuff quite closely, but there were clearly quite a few more British comedians than I'd realised. Jimmy Carr didn't really surprise me because he'd clearly do anything for the money (he was found guilty of a tax evasion scheme in the UK, which other comics will continue to prod him about on panel shows). Jack Whitehall is a little more surprising since he has a "good guy" persona, but I think he's becoming used to lavish lifestyles - he was last seen on the grid of the F1 Singapore Grand Prix, which instantly sends anyone down in my estimation. Andrew Maxwell, the Irish comic who Lewis spoke to on the plane, is definitely lower tier, and this was clearly just a well-paid gig for him. Funny, but not one of life's thinkers. I don't watch it, but I suspect his main pay-day these days is as the narrator of the UK version of Ex on the Beach on MTV (the bit of MTV that's not closing down in the UK). Every name I spot is another name that I won't ever pay to see again. Adam On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 10:10 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > Wow, I am not familiar with Helen Lewis, but her writing impressed me > enough that I’m thinking of subscribing to the Atlantic. > > I really liked her point that there was a time that American culture > seemed to celebrate stand-up comics as public intellectuals; I plead guilty > to doing that with people like Dave Chappelle. The problem is not that > Chapelle and his ilk are horrible people (some are, some not, most in > between). It’s that these people are not intellectuals, they are not > particularly educated and their insights are not particularly incisive. > They get paid to make people laugh and buy drinks, and they are relatively > successful at doing that. > > She described the comics who played Saudi Arabia as mostly Americans > “many, like C.K., have had previous encounters with left-wing cancel > culture….Plus a whole bunch of independent podcasters whose material would > never make it onto Saturday Night Live.” > > These are guys who are just looking to say “fuck you”, to not mainstream > American culture but to a mainstream liberal American culture that for a > time lionized them, confusing the ability and willingness to make funny > jokes about George W. Bush-era conservative culture with incisive social > commentary. Bill Maher and Louis CK are not and never were public > intellectuals, much less liberal social critics. That is not a crime, and > the shame is on those of us who misperceived who they were. > > So it’s not really surprising when the level of discourse these comics use > to justify their performance in Riyadh doesn’t rise above the level of > lazy, C- sophomore college English paper. One minor comic from the UK tells > Lewis on the plane home that there’s no moral difference between taking > money from the Saudi government or the BBC (Several American comic made the > same point about taking money from American corporations or even just > American paying customers). This is just banal self justifying > rationalization masquerading as hardheaded social critique. It’s practiced > by billions of human beings every day; shame on any of us if we expected > better from Dave Chappelle or Bill Burr. > > My favorite bit in the Lewis article really highlights the mediocrity of > the thinking of these guys; She gives a extended excerpt from Bill Burr > “gushing” About his time in Riyadh on his podcast, and then slip in the > knife: > > “My whole fucking idea of Saudi Arabia is what I’ve seen on the news,” he > said. “I literally think I’m going to fucking land, you know, and > everybody’s going to be screaming ‘Death to America!’ and they’re going to > have like fucking machetes and want to like chop my head off, right?” > However, “everybody’s just regular—like, shooting the shit.” (His next > special should be called Bill Burr’s Low Bar.)” > > > > > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > > On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 at 8:44 AM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> wrote: > >> There's an excellent piece by Helen Lewis in The Atlantic about the >> comedy festival, as she actually went to it. >> >> >> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/10/fear-laughing-riyadh-comedy-louis-ck/684527/ >> >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 1:30 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I think we can just come out and say it’s stupid. I would have more >>> respect for comics who admitted they we’re just casting in on a big payday. >>> Burr and Anzari are engaging in these tortured rationalizations Is almost >>> as embarrassing as prostituting themselves for murderers. >>> >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 9 Oct 2025 at 2:59 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> His side is extremely naive and sophomoric >>>> >>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 2:52 PM 'Bob F' via TVorNotTV < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Another participant, Aziz Ansari, gave his side last night to Kimmel: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/aziz-ansari-riyadh-comedy-festival-jimmy-kimmel-live-1236396832/ >>>>> (link) >>>>> B >>>>> >>>>> Kevin M, Sept 28th: >>>>> >>>>> Pete Davidson and Bill Burr, among others. All being paid over $300k >>>>> to attend a comedy festival in Saudi Arabia. Naturally, their free speech >>>>> is restricted. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://variety.com/2025/politics/global/marc-maron-human-rights-riyadh-comedy-festival-1236530044/?fbclid=IwdGRjcANGi2dleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHq9XCn-5tz1PrkXQX1TwrE9afhdZGDzCuDlTDax5mfHp41nfUs9kAwCnjvux_aem_ffRsmd1pFf2Q1ETsYAAhLw >>>>> >>>>> People like Marc Maron are questioning the ethics of taking money from >>>>> the same prince who not too long ago murdered a journalist. >>>>> >>>>> Leah Remini has weighed in. >>>>> >>>>> https://youtu.be/FDBqz1Va4Js?si=WPwgkooQELR6S6Pv >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f4ba3d83-e1bf-40f9-bd21-e30f6db5dd91n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f4ba3d83-e1bf-40f9-bd21-e30f6db5dd91n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4AH0XngcZ_a_%2BSUgybv%2BwCOWAqHMO4zVggKgFKHzLan4g%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4AH0XngcZ_a_%2BSUgybv%2BwCOWAqHMO4zVggKgFKHzLan4g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYL4Yvvgpy%2BsMuiVN4vAVKQO9esprJNf%2B1_4FAyqF6k3vg%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYL4Yvvgpy%2BsMuiVN4vAVKQO9esprJNf%2B1_4FAyqF6k3vg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGAKEwc5LP0Fy5BV88AXckYjReAnF%2BRAEeaL4CnQPiAA2w%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGAKEwc5LP0Fy5BV88AXckYjReAnF%2BRAEeaL4CnQPiAA2w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLdj1jEMccW0rEYc6J%3DpgDwOGZ6Xjvt7ii5cAHJRzJRmw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLdj1jEMccW0rEYc6J%3DpgDwOGZ6Xjvt7ii5cAHJRzJRmw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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