On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Steve Romanow<slestak...@gmail.com> wrote: > Mecki Foerthmann wrote: >> >> It really boils down to this. >> What can you do with Python in a U2 database that I can't do with Pick >> Basic? > > Umm, real unit testing ala nosetest
I realize this is the U2 list, but I thought I would note that at least one implementation of mvbasic is enhanced for OO and does have a unit test framework (like junit). I will state up front that I'm using Cache' then just refer to it with other terms such as "our MV toolset" as this is not intended to be a sales pitch. > real exception handling, it has this too > umm, real inline documentation (the topic of this thread) Available in the OO classes, so you can put a /// comment, for example, in front of any mvbasic "method" and these work with html, this is not available within mvbasic code itself, however > Umm, access to thousands of trained developers all over the world. To a great extent, you have to train those who work on any project in the specifics of whatever platform you are using anyway. BASIC is one of the easiest languages to learn, so I'll agree this is an advantage, but not as big as one might think. > lets see, point 5, joining this decade with a modern toolkit. On the flip side of this one, you get developers who do not feel a need to chase every shiny object (so to speak) that comes along if they are writing mvbasic. Coding with today's most current tools pretty much implies you will be behind on some front next year, at which point you will either stop and revise your code for the new stuff or lose your "most work with shiny objects" developers. > cross platform capability built in (python runs everywhere, everywhere I > care about at least.) I have only read a few pieces of python and was not overly impressed with the whole white space approach, for example, but there are many who love it, so I'll assume it is a nice language. It is just a language, however, and I already have plenty of those, with javascript and mvbasic along with markup like html, xml, css. I can see no good reason to swap out any of those for python. > Great UI toolkits gtk, Qt, Tcl, (for free) We are using an AJAX framework for mvbasic and it works well (although I'm a bit slow to catch on at times). There definitely are plenty of toolkits out there and most do not integrate mvbasic, but the fact that some do is encouraging. > integration with everything under the sun (except U2) jython, ipython, .NET, This hasn't been a problem either. So, python is fine, but so is mvbasic. They can both be used to get the job done, with an exception that you note that python doesn't work natively with U2, while mvbasic does. There are many variations and nothing works with everything. > Anyone think of anything else? > > >> And do I really need to be able to do that to do my job improving and >> maintaining commercial software in an SB+ Unidata environment any better? > > If you limit youself to what SB+ can do, wow. I am coding around SB+ as > much as possible. I think there are tools out now or there will be that convert SB+ to something newer too (I think our MV implementation has or will have a tool for that) >> Do I get paid more if I write code in Python instead of Basic? > > Doesnt matter. You will have a better chance of being employable with your > next job by learning python (or anything else). If a particular employer is looking for specific toolset skills, it is not hard to teach yourself new tools if you understand your profession to begin with, enough to get your foot in the door of an interview. I will grant that at first it will be like picking up a saxophone when you are a flutist (not trying to get into the flutist vs flautist discussion) where you can perform the fingerings but surely are not as ept at the instrument at the outset. This is where my statement that you end up having to learn any environment these days comes in. It is not as if a person is likely to know the precise full suite of tools in the platform of any company when they arrive. >> I doubt it. The hardest bit is not the coding but figuring out the >> business logic, and no language nor fancy tool can do that for you. > > It is also hard to graft policies and processes onto a toolkit that was > never made for it. SB+ and Unibasic are very dated and are showing there > age more and more every year. The data model for U2 has really made a comeback this century with XML and JSON being much more like PICK than RDBMS's data structures. Most RDBMS's have enhanced their toolset for newer SQL standards so they can handle nested structures even if inelegantly. So in some ways there is a movement back to MV, even if not typically in the form of MV databases (somewhat unfortunately, I think). >> I bet there are a lot of things I can do with Pick Basic and multi-value >> that you can't (or at least not as easily) do with Python. > > Please name some. I would really like to know. Basic has nothing to do > with MV, nor does python. Unibasic is merely the language chosen to > manipulate data objects. > What I propose is no different that what Tony G does with .NET, or what > the java bindings for mv are. > > For a db to remain relevant, it needs hooks and GOOD, FREE bindings to as > many technologies as possible. Yes, agreed. > If IBM wants a license for every single > thing related to U2, its growth and uptake will remain stunted. > > Things could be a lot different in our marketplace. We should charge for > services, not connections. If you give away the connections, we have larger > installs, which give more opportunity for consulting and getting money into > peoples pockets. > > >> >> So in the end would it really benefit me in what I am doing for a living >> every day if I would learn yet another new language? >> > I am going to be learning a new language every day that I continue to work. > I am not going to hang my whole career on Unibasic. I don't hang my career on any languages. They are all "just" tools for developing software. That said, it is important to learn various tools. I would not head to python myself, primarily because it is not big in the business world (plus I read Dreaming in Code), but javascript seems like a good one for many people in our profession to know right now. I am less excited about java now that Oracle bought Sun, but some OO language, whether mvbasic+OO (as at least two MV implementations have, including the one I am using), Ruby (on Rails), Java, C# or other would also be good to know. You might also want to pick up PHP if you are using MV and are not using the MV toolset I am using (where you can use mvbasic instead of PHP or Java in the middle tier) or even perl, although it is considered older and perhaps past its prime (but, hey, who isn't?). Just my two cents. cheers! --dawn -- Dawn M. Wolthuis Take and give some delight today _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
