Thats my opinion. Thank you!
Am Samstag, den 05.01.2008, 16:54 +0200 schrieb Nemes Ioan Sorin: > I personally take this Civitas Forum in a semi-serious mode. > Why ? > > I put here on this community some questions - in time - and I add some > points in discussion. > > Responses, generally - just disappoint me. Where I talk about serious > problems such a programmatic way to rethink UI elements design - giving > some examples, other peoples respond me they don't like the color of my > example [ where the color was not the problem on topic ] - so I see some > discussions are done in parallel - some peoples talk about something - > other peoples understand everything else -> so being parallels they will > not meet in the next gazillion of years. [this is not about Ken - I > observe Ken has a good background, knowledges and leader qualities - > this is good ]. > > So regarding your question Sebastian - I am designer - I respect my job > rules - for some applications I have to design custom graphics for form > elements, and UI. I do Plex WT theme for XP few years ago. > > I can design elements for a new Ubuntu theme. But also I see here some > talented guys that can do the same. Not a single problem here with > designers. But with decision power. > > How I can help when I say "the things should be on this way(....), from > Usability point of view" and other one after me will say "no, you're not > right" ...so where my expertise can go ?. Is not important that I have > some experience with this kind of things. Anyone will say NO and the > problem is solved. ...waste of time, believe-me Sebastian - until the > decisional mechanism is solved. Right now anyone is equal to anyone. > > This is the perfect terrain for the entropy rules (sad joke). > > For example shadowh511 said : > > I think of a clean, simple OS. the color brown > > represents cleanliness and simplicity, while blue represents sadness and > > fear. If we want to have people download hardy, why not give them a > > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble > > windows and all of that eye candy > > How could I can take this seriously ? Regarding colors - the problem is > solved before we born - so when he "think", some peoples could affirm > precisely where the problem is. Also a lack of maturity -> > "why not give them a > > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble > > windows and all of that eye candy" > > From his point of view all problems are solved with some wobble and > some eye candy. That's all. No problem with the enterprise user - which > has other rituals / values - no problem that Ubuntu must penetrate > there, eyecandy and wobble will solve all... even healthy problems maybe. > > Well - this is a complex product with long term effects. But some > peoples want just to see how their dreams come true - not important if > this is in benefit of all (or almost all users) or not. > > Also we not need a theme - there are a lot - we want to do "default > Ubuntu theme" (with minimum 3 color variations). That's the point. Hardy > will be LTS. > Hardy will go on enterprises and offices. > That mean thousands of peoples with vary ages. > Hardy is not just for few peoples with free time. This theme must cover > a social demand - to be easy received by all that peoples / to be easy > to work with / to be visually pleasant. > To be clean, useful and distinctive for Ubuntu. > This is not so easy to obtain - anyhow some proposals will not go too > far with diagonal stripes on the scrollbar OR semitransparent buttons > (on scrollbar on others sides) - at least corporate users will hate that > because affect the look focus - also those stripes does not represent > anything if favor of "clean" principle, being from start a complication. > > Here must be a distinction about how we like and what is good. But this > mean maturity and professionalism - not just "I like this - I think that > ..and so". > > Professionalism mean clear states in every domain "Yes and No" not "I > think this could be.. " or ".. Maybe...", or with states as "Me, then > Goethe...". > > So when I'll see a clean Idea in which I can believe OR when I'll see a > structure where I can collaborate [anyhow you need to create a > decisional structure - democracy, democracy but until when ?] - be sure > I will participate with work and knowledge - on the mean time I am > member of other Ubuntu teams and I have to fill daily bug reports and a > lot of other stuff ... > > I will put some considerations about the Ubuntu 8.04 default theme in a > later (maybe tomorrow) mail. We will see after that. > > Good luck - best wishes for everyone - and ..be minstrels not kings guys ;) > > SorinN > > Sebastian Billaudelle wrote: > > Well said! > > > > I think that many people don't take us (you?) seriously. The current > > theme is years old... > > Nobody uses the default theme (except of me, I think...). > > If anybody woullead a team, I would join in. (I could do things like a > > new GDM-theme...). > > > > Let's fight;-) > > > > Am Samstag, den 05.01.2008, 11:23 +0000 schrieb Who: > >> All, > >> > >> On my schedule for this (potential) process, today was the day to > >> decide whether or not we wanted to do this. Very few people have > >> answered... Please answer. > >> > >> As it stands, with one suggested theme and no leader for it, we can't > >> go ahead. There is just no point. Is there any support for this idea, > >> or are people only here because they want to design the default theme > >> (serious question, not an attack! ...please answer) > >> > >> In summary, here is why I think it is a good idea to do this > >> * If you want your design to be available to Ubuntu users, this is the > >> only certain way to do it > >> * In the past, this team has had most success developing community > >> themes (my opinion, but see below) > >> * If we want to be taken more seriously as a team in the future, > >> getting good stuff done well without offiicial hand-holding is > >> important > >> * Developing these themes is fun, seeing people using your theme is great > >> > >> But if we don't get people able to run them/do design we can't go > >> forward. It is only sensible for me to drive a process like this a > >> certain amount (i.e the leaders need to want to do it!, and do does > >> the team) > >> > >> It occurs to me that if we can't even make a complete theme of ANY > >> style to a good standard, we shouldn't expect to be taken seriously > >> when we ask to design the default theme! > >> > >> Happy answering, > >> > >> Who > >> > >> On Jan 3, 2008 9:59 AM, Frank Schoep <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL > >> PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >> > On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: > >> > > To all the new people around here - please pay attention to Who, he > >> > > has been around here for a good while and knows the drill. … > >> > > >> > Absolutely – there are a few people on this list who've been around > >> > for quite some time. I think this list is very fortunate to still > >> > have experienced people like Who and Troy around, but it's also good > >> > to see a lot of new enthusiastic people sharing their vision. > >> > > >> > > … > >> > > We came close to the real deal once, was it Dapper?, where we got a > >> > > few community themes, bundled, but not enabled, by default. > >> > > >> > I think you are referring to Edgy, as the Theme Teams were introduced > >> > in that release. Eventually three themes ended up in universe, being > >> > Blubuntu (Who / PingunZ), Peace (Chuck Huber) and Tropic (Viper550). > >> > > >> > While varying in quality and polish, the mere fact they were included > >> > was a sign that independent small community groups could work towards > >> > their own vision *and* meet the hard deadline constraints that were > >> > set for them. > >> > > >> > > This happened solely because of two things: > >> > > * A few people stood up and took responsibility for creating themes > >> > > >> > Indeed. There was a deadline for Theme Team applications a few weeks > >> > into the release cycle so that the theme leaders needed to be > >> > involved from the start up through a few weeks before release. For > >> > Edgy, four leaders stepped up with a serious proposal. > >> > > >> > During the development period, we regularly discussed progress and > >> > problems and where possible I tried to help out either myself or by > >> > getting the right people in touch with each other. > >> > > >> > > * Daniel Holbach saved our asses with a lot of packaging work we > >> > > really should have done our selves > >> > > >> > Daniel has historically helped out with a lot of packaging work, > >> > indeed. For the Edgy Theme Teams, we made sure he only had one final > >> > version to package per theme with room before the deadline, so they > >> > wouldn't burden him much. > >> > > >> > > I think it would be very valuable to have a "History Page" on the > >> wiki > >> > > outlining the success and Failures of the art team. That would > >> > > probably help to make it clear how we are doomed to repeat history > >> > > unless people step up an take responsibility. > >> > > >> > While I can't say much about Feisty, Gutsy or Hardy-in-progress, I > >> > could tell you about Edgy. As far as I know, Edgy was the first (and > >> > last?) release to actively try and use community input as a viable > >> > source for distribution artwork. > >> > > >> > Postmortem I did an interview with Linux.com on the Edgy cycle, and > >> > there's some half-decent comments from Slashdot, too: > >> > http://www.linux.com/feature/58477 > >> > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/2241255 > >> > ('Stroep' [sic]) > >> > > >> > It seems that all the history we built on the Wiki has been shoveled > >> > elsewhere or been dumped in a landfill altogether, but if you can > >> > find it, you might be able to reconstruct a decent timeline along > >> > with the mailing list. > >> > > >> > It was pretty high traffic during those days (July - October 2006) > >> > and the ML / Wiki combination seemed to work somewhat satisfactory. > >> > > >> > All in all, Edgy was edgy to me – as you can read in the interview > >> > the idea was to try something new, community artwork by default, and > >> > since there were no trodden roads available I did my best to get and > >> > keep things rolling in an enjoyable fashion. > >> > > >> > I think it worked out pretty well in terms of community involvement, > >> > enthusiasm, commitment, process structure and raw output. Slightly > >> > missing was the desired art *direction* but somehow I don't think > >> > that problem's been resolved ever since, no flame or offense intended. > >> > > >> > If you'd ask me now, sure I'd do things different based on the Edgy > >> > experience and the knowledge I've accumulated since then, but I think > >> > the Edgy cycle already showed a lot of potential for the future > >> > although it never got tapped into afterwards. > >> > > >> > Tell me if I'm wearing rose-colored glasses, thanks for reading. > >> > > >> > Sincerely, > >> > > >> > Frank > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > ubuntu-art mailing list > >> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com <mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com> > >> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > >> > > >> > >
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