Hi Backporters team, Just wondering if you had a chance to review my feedback? It would be great to try and make some progress here.
Thanks, Alex On Fri, 2023-02-10 at 11:17:46 +1030, Alex Murray wrote: > On Wed, 2023-01-25 at 09:47:37 -0500, Dan Streetman wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 12:21 AM Alex Murray <alex.mur...@canonical.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ubuntu Backporters Team, >>> >>> The Tech Board is hoping to progress the ratification of a charter for >>> the Ubuntu Backporters Team as discussed previously on a number of >>> occasions. My understanding is that these previous discussions between >>> the Backporters Team and the Tech Board have not been able to reach a >>> consensus on both the level of detail and the requirements that would be >>> stipulated in the Charter. >>> >>> The previous drafts at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports/Charter >>> seemed to contain a mix of both high level statements/directions for the >>> team as well as lower-level policies for the operation of the team. I >>> notice that now most of these lower-level details have moved into >>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports/Policies but there is still no >>> higher level Charter outlining the purpose and guiding principles for >>> the team. >>> >>> As such I propose the following as a starting point, which is based on >>> the previous proposal from rbasak[1] but which tries to reduce any >>> potential burdens placed on the team by such an overall Charter: >>> >>> >>> * Establish and manage an effective process to handle backport >>> requests based solely on their technical merit. >> >> I'm not sure this is correct, to handle requests *solely* on technical >> merit. For example, part of the backport process is the expectation >> that the backport requestor/uploader will remain responsible for >> further backports as needed; if an uploaded backport seems technically >> correct but the backports team does not believe the uploader would be >> responsible for further uploads, the backports team should be able to >> reject the upload on that basis. >> >> Stating "solely on their technical merit" places undue restrictions on >> our team, I believe. >> > > I feel it is perhaps a bit too onerous to expect that just because a > user contributes one backport that they then should be expected to keep > doing backports for that package - this is placing undue restrictions on > your possible contributors. Regardless though, I don't think the > backports team should be trying to guess whether someone is likely to > contribute further backports in the future - this leaves too much chance > for the team to ignore proposed backports on arbitrary grounds. As such, > this is the exact point of the statement "solely on their technical > merit" - to give confidence to prospective users who want to contribute > backports that their submissions will be treated in a fair manner. > >>> >>> * Maintain the backports pocket based on this process, with an aim to >>> ensure all requests are responded to in a reasonable amount of time. >> >> What does "reasonable amount of time" mean? >> > > This is purposely non-specific - but again is here to give prospective > users confidence that their submissions will not sit ignored for an > indefinite period. > >>> >>> * Maintain quality in the backports pocket, where the definition of >>> quality is driven by the team, but decided by consensus within the >>> wider Ubuntu developer community. >> >> I'm not quite sure what this statement is trying to achieve, or what >> it would mean in practice. Can you clarify? >> > > This allows the backports team to take the lead on defining what is > required in terms of quality for submissions but also allows the > community to give feedback / input as well. > >>> >>> * Handle process reform and membership management internally, ensuring >>> that any responsibility can be carried by any contributor who >>> demonstrates the required capacity and competence. >> >> I think this statement is even harder to read, can you clarify and/or reword >> it? >> >> For example, if we must handle process/membership "internally", does >> that mean we can't get outside input on those subjects? If not, then >> what is the point of the statement at all? >> > > This delegates authority to the backports team for these functions but > again makes a statement that hopefully gives prospective contributors > confidence that they can contribute just by demonstrating their > abilities. I don't see why this statement as written would preclude > getting outside input. > >>> >>> >>> I hope this can serve as a basis to reach a consensus that is amendable >>> to both the Backporters Team and Technical Board. >> >> As a counter proposal, what do you think of this simple "charter": >> >> * Maintain the Ubuntu "backports" pocket. >> > > Whilst this is nice and simple, I feel it leaves far too much open to > interpretation. > > So I think we are starting to get to the crux of the difference in > viewpoints from the TB to the backporters team. Due to the past history > of some perceived dysfunction within the backporters team, I feel it is > important to try and set some more specific expectations for how the > newly rebooted team would function - particularly to an outsider wishing > to contribute. This is not trying to constrain the efforts of those on > the team in any way, but more trying to set an expectation of quality > for all possible contributions, and to also give contributors confidence > that their submissions won't potentially be in vain. Overall, this is > really about trying to ensure the backports subcommunity is vibrant and > welcoming to encourage contributions, and not potentially perceived as a > gated group that is only accessible to the special few. > >>> >>> I welcome any feedback from all involved (please note I am not >>> subscribed to the ubuntu-backports list so please CC me directly on >>> responses). >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2022-February/022687.html >>> >>> -- >>> ubuntu-backports mailing list >>> ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-backports > > -- > technical-board mailing list > technical-bo...@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board -- ubuntu-backports mailing list ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-backports
