On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubu...@kitterman.com> wrote: > On Friday, June 14, 2013 11:15:17 AM Marc Deslauriers wrote: >> On 13-06-14 11:04 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: >> > On Friday, June 14, 2013 03:54:32 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: >> >> Here's a discussion I half started as part of vUDS. >> >> >> >> The switch to Mir in Ubuntu seems pretty risky for the existance of >> >> Kubuntu, I wonder if other flavours have the same probable problem. >> >> >> >> KWin dev has opinions on the subject >> >> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/05/mir-in-kubuntu/ From the >> >> >> >> architecture section on that blog post: >> >> "Mir’s architecture is centered around Unity. It is difficult to really >> >> understand the architecture of Mir as the specification is so full of >> >> buzz-words that I don’t understand it [5]. From all I can see and >> >> understand Unity Next is a combination of window manager and desktop >> >> shell implemented on top of Mir. How exactly this is going to look >> >> like I do not know. Anyway it does not fit our design of having >> >> desktop shell and window manager separated and we do not know whether >> >> Mir would support that. We also do not know whether Mir would allow >> >> any other desktop shell except Unity Next, given that this is the main >> >> target. Wayland on the other hand is designed to have more than one >> >> compositor implementations. Using KWin as a session compositor is an >> >> example in the spec." >> >> >> >> and on protocol >> >> >> >> "But it gets worse, the protocol between Mir server and Mir clients >> >> is defined as not being stable. In fact it’s promised that it will >> >> break. That’s a huge problem, I would even call it a showstopper.... >> >> Given that the protocol may change any time and given that the whole >> >> thing is developed for the needs of Unity we have to expect that the >> >> server libraries are not binary compatible or that old version of the >> >> server libraries cannot talk with the latest client libraries" >> >> >> >> Canonical was going to port LightDM to Wayland but now does not plan >> >> to so someone else would have to do this. KDE might be interested >> >> but more likely will switch to SDDM. >> >> >> >> For Kubuntu the options are: >> >> - Use Mir - infeasable as upstream can't support it as described above >> >> - Use Wayland with packages from Debian and hope we can make those >> >> packages >> >> >> >> live with Mir as best as possible >> >> >> >> - End of Kubuntu >> >> >> >> The second options is the one I'm expecting. It's completely unknown >> >> how much it means Kubuntu and other flavours will need to maintain X >> >> and Wayland packages, hopefully not much (it's hardly our speciality) >> >> and hopefully Debian and Ubuntu Desktop will support it enough. >> >> >> >> I don't think there's a public timeline for Mir so we don't know when >> >> this will hit us, presumably in the next year. >> >> >> >> Other flavours I think are this: >> >> Mythbuntu: not evaluated, hope to do so once NVideo and AMD provide >> >> drivers >> >> Lubuntu: not evaluated, hope to use X and GTK >> >> ubuntustudio: I've heard both that they use xfce based on xubuntu and >> >> will follow them, and "aiming for users to choose whatever desktop >> >> environment they want" >> >> >> >> Any other flavours got an opinions? >> >> >> >> Are there any misconceptions I have in the above? >> > >> > Given that mesa is going to be heavily patched to support Mir, I question >> > the long term feasibility of supporting Wayland in Ubuntu. >> >> How would adding a new backend to mesa result in it being "heavily >> patched"? Why would adding a new backend to mesa affect the other >> backends, including Wayland? > > Upstream kwin tells us they already see bug reports from Kubuntu users due to > mesa changes to support Unity. I don't think it's just a new back end. >
Do you have a link to the bug reports handy? We are happy to look at them if they originate from the Mir-Mesa patches. Thomas > Scott K > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
