Barry deFreese wrote: > Lionel Le Folgoc wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:35:15 +0200, Gauvain Pocentek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> >>> Hello MOTUs and MOTU hopefuls, >>> >>> As you certainly noticed, the list of packages waiting on REVU is >>> really, really long. I've reviewed a few and the update to gutsy is >>> needed for all of them (only a one line change in the changelog, but >>> needed). It'd be nice if people having packages on REVU could update >>> the distro target. >>> >>> Also, a lot of packages have been commented by reviewers but not updated >>> by the uploaders. Could we define some kind of policy about what we >>> should do with this packages? My guess is that we should mail the >>> uploader directly (not only a message on REVU or on this list) to ask >>> him what he intends to do with the package. This would allow us to clean >>> the list, and other packagers to grab the package and finish it if the >>> initial packager don't want / can't work on the package anymore. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Gauvain >>> >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-motu mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu >>> >>> >> Hi, >> >> I think this is a good idea. >> >> But IMO, it raises some important questions, and since we're at the >> beginning of a new development cycle, it is the good time to try to >> answer them, to keep on improving us and Universe. >> >> I read some comments on bug reports[1], which made me think that >> something isn't going well, and we should try to find why and how fix >> it. And the thing to blame isn't 'miscommunication'. >> >> Yes, everyone will agree, the packages list waiting on REVU is huge, and >> I believe there is an issue in both MOTUs and people proposing packages. >> >> >> * First, why are there so few reviewers? >> >> That's not definitely because a lack of MOTU (65 members of ~motu) >> I really wonder why so few MOTUs are reviewing on REVU. Here are some >> possible answers: >> >> - core-dev: some MOTUs are also core-dev, so they are very busy, >> dealing with main packages. >> >> - "debian-way-of-thinking" (that's not pejorative): some MOTUs take >> care of their own packages *only* (that's not the way I see this task, >> and I am pretty sure you agree). >> >> - too busy to review: making statistics, rebuilds of the whole archive >> and all this kind of tasks is useful, but not essential. It won't >> fix nor review issues/packages. >> >> - knowledge issue: reviewing is hard, and reasonably, no one can know >> all packaging policies. I think that many MOTUs don't 'dare' to review >> package, because they think it'll call into question their packaging >> knowledge. >> >> >> * Then, why are there so many packages waiting on REVU? >> >> (I've just spoken of the lack of reviewers above, so I won't speak about >> it again.) >> >> IMO, many packagers upload their packages to REVU, and think that's >> done, and their packages are going to get into Universe. I don't know if >> it is a miscommunication or a lack of motivation, but actually, very >> few people come on #ubuntu-motu to "prevent MOTUs from sleeping until >> they have reviewed their packages". This is worse during REVU days: many >> packages are reviewed, but few are updated by packagers within the "time >> frame" (i.e. before the end of these REVU days). >> >> >> * So, how can we improve this? >> >> I think the REVU/wiki page has to be updated, to explicitely say: >> "When-you-upload-a-package-go-on-#ubuntu-motu-and-cry-and-yell-until-you-get-a-MOTU-to-review-it". >> >> Besides, we need a better tracking for proposed packages. The >> motu-reviewers mailing list has a 'too high traffic' to manage this >> efficiently. When I review a package, I need to keep the name/address >> and check incoming mail to see if it hasn't been updated. >> I think we can use LP for this. For instance, if a bug report is filed >> for each new package uploaded on REVU, it would be easier to see if a >> MOTU isn't already reviewing it. As we did with the 'needs-packaging' >> tag, we could set up a tag which indicates a package needs to be reviewed. >> >> Finally, I think that it'll only need a little effort if everyone is >> involving ; no specification - even well written -, no statistic - even >> very precise - is going to be the miracle-fix for the 5 problematic >> points explained above. >> >> Thoughts on this? >> >> Cheers, >> Lionel >> >> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/104654/comments/2 >> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vdrift-data/+bug/106854/comments/ >>
Hi Barry, > Lionel, > > I agree with much of what you are saying. However, your comment about a > lack of resources not being an issue is false I believe. Yes, there are > 65 MOTUs listed but how many of them are actually active? > > We tend to go through cycles where people have higher and lower levels > of involvement. That includes myself as well. I try to REVU when I can > but when my real-life workload gets high and I still have other stuff > going on with Ubuntu, REVU drops in the priority list. My own personal > opinion is that we don't even have the resources to take on what we have > much less adding hundreds and hundreds of new packages. /me agrees, real life is to be considered. But I'm sure that Lionel wasn't thinking that we should be working all the time when we become MOTU :) We've reviewed the list of active MOTUs together with Daniel H. a few weeks ago, and most are still active in a way or another. Maybe we're lacking a good way to organize the reviews. > The other issue > is that there are no "standards" for the packages on REVU. Much of the > stuff on there is cruft and I don't even see the benefit of bringing > some of it in. Yeah it's nice that Joe User can get his or her package > in the repo's but does it really benefit Ubuntu? > That's a question that has already been considered, but we might need to think about that again... > I also tend to see a lot of upload it and forget it as Guavain somewhat > pointed out to start with. Several packages have been sitting out there > and we have made comments and in certain instances I have even mailed > the uploader with no response. I realize that some of that may be > frustration on the uploaders part but again, we aren't miracle workers. > I've spent days and days bugging MOTUs on irc for reviews when I started to work on Ubuntu. I don't see people doing this anymore (or way less often than before). We should clarify the fact that having a package included in Ubuntu needs work and perseverance. > Just my 2 worthless cents. > Thanks :) Gauvain > Thanks, > > Barry (aka bddebian) > > -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
