I gotta' agree with DW. -1. Kevin
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 11:24 AM, <ubuntu-us-ca-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com>wrote: > Send Ubuntu-us-ca mailing list submissions to > ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ubuntu-us-ca-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ubuntu-us-ca-ow...@lists.ubuntu.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-us-ca digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Leadership Appointment Process (Alan Ostlund) > 2. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process > (Larry Cafiero) > 3. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process > (David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~) > 4. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process > (Akkana Peck) > 5. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process > (David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~) > 6. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process > (Mark Garrow) > 7. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process > (Jack Deslippe) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:30:40 -0800 > From: Alan Ostlund <mjol...@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Leadership Appointment Process > To: ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <1268148640.11713.3.ca...@alan-desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I vote +1, but only because if we don't do something about the issue, it > will get out of hand. Neal has done a great job so far, but new blood > is usually a good thing. At least we have more than one person willing > to do the job. In a lot of cases, you will find no one willing to > devote the time this job will require. > > Alan Ostlund > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 07:35:36 -0800 > From: Larry Cafiero <larry.cafi...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment > Process > To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: > <7a0d56081003090735y6c7c4ea4lae2c79bb501f7...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > It seem that this particular situation requires a leadership process, and > the one proposed is sound. > > +1 > > Larry Cafiero > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon <j...@ubuntu.com> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little > > confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the > > leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would > > benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel > > that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1. > > > > Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all! > > > > Jono > > > > -- > > Jono Bacon > > Ubuntu Community Manager > > www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org > > www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-us-ca mailing list > > Ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/attachments/20100309/525cb20d/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:58:30 -0800 > From: David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ <ubu...@darkwingduck.org> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment > Process > To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: <4b967026.1090...@darkwingduck.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 03/09/2010 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little > > confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the > > leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would > > benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel > > that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1. > > > > Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all! > > > > Jono > > > > -1 > > For my reasons feel free to email me. > > DW > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:18:28 -0800 > From: Akkana Peck <akk...@shallowsky.com> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment > Process > To: ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <20100309171828.gb1...@shallowsky.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Jono Bacon writes: > > Hi All, > > > > I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little > > confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the > > leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would > > benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel > > that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1. > > > > Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all! > > Now I'm even more confused than I was before. I thought we were > voting on keeping the current setup for a year, then letting the > team vote on leadership after that. Now you clarify we're voting on > whether to have formal leadership at all, ever. That seems very > different from what you said in the first message. > > As a relative newcomer I don't know what all these smouldering > issues are or even who a lot of the people are (you know, it > would be really helpful to have a page somewhere that mapped IRC > nicks to real names, or for folks on IRC in leadership positions > to set their realnames). So I probably should stay out of the > vote anyway, but I have to say this process is confusing. > > ...Akkana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:24:42 -0800 > From: David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ <ubu...@darkwingduck.org> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment > Process > To: ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <4b96926a.8060...@darkwingduck.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 03/09/2010 07:58 AM, David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ wrote: > > On 03/09/2010 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little > >> confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the > >> leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would > >> benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel > >> that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1. > >> > >> Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all! > >> > >> Jono > >> > > > > -1 > > > > For my reasons feel free to email me. > > > > DW > > > > There have been a lot of questions about my vote. I figured that it > would be more productive to reply with my reasons here. > > The issues in the group stem from a leadership style that Neal (Flannel) > has. The issues have brought up a lot of controversy with the northern > group. Grant (Grantbow) is one of the people that have brought the > issues to light. It's a philosophy issue between how those in NorCal > think and deal with problems vice those in SoCal. > > SoCal thinking has a way of saying "Problems will take care of > themselves." The NorCal thinking is "Deal with the problem ASAP, fix it > and move on." This is where you can break down the issue. My problem is > that when/if a change of power takes place the issue of philosophy will > not change. If someone from NorCal takes over then the issue still > remains as those from SoCal will stir that we are spending too much time > focused on the problems and not enough on what a LoCo should do. > > This is why I feel this course of action is like a very small band-aid > to a larger problem. What should be done is a set of bylaws on how to > deal with issues, leadership and how to conduct business. Changing > leaders will not solve this issue. > > DW > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:10:55 -0800 > From: Mark Garrow <markgar...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment > Process > To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: <4b969d3f.9020...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > +1 > > On 3/8/2010 9:23 PM, Jono Bacon wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > To those of you who don't know me, I am Jono Bacon and I am the Ubuntu > > Community Manager, now residing in the Easy Bay in sunny California. :-) > > > > Aside from just being part of the team, I have also been helping to > > resolve some conflict that has been happening in the team. I have had > > some calls with Neal and Grant and spoken to many of you to gather your > > input about the team and this conflict. > > > > Today I had a conference call with Neal and Grant and both identified > > that a key issue is that sometimes unresolved issues are left open and > > not resolved. Typically in most LoCo teams in these scenarios the leader > > will help unblock and bring closure to these issues. While Neal is the > > leader Ubuntu California, there was some uncertaintly in our call as to > > how formally recognized this is. > > > > I made a suggestion in the call, but Grant, Neal and I all agreed that > > we should not move forward with the suggestion without gathering > > feedback from the team as to whether it is needed. As such, I would like > > to ask each of you to provide feedback on the following suggestion - > > some of you will want to mail me your feedback privately, and some will > > be happy to reply to the list. Whatever method you choose: please > > summarize *your* view, and not the view of someone who has asked you to > > provide feedback one way or the other. The aim of this is for me to get > > a barometer of opinion for this proposal. > > > > This is it: > > > > I recommend we have a leadership appoint process that works like > this: > > > > * With Neal already the leader of the team, starting from April > > 1st 2010 he would start a formally recognized one year term of > > leadership (he would be grandfathered in). > > * In March 2011 a leadership appointment process will happen > > that works like this: > > o there will be an invitation for people to nominate > > themselves for leadership. There will be a standard wiki > > template used for people to produce their case for > > leadership and others will provide testimonials. > > o a meeting will be scheduled and nominations will be > > discussed, there will then be a vote using a voting tool > > to identify the leader. > > o if there is a draw or some conflict surrounding the > > vote, the LoCo Council will evaluate the case and pick a > > leader. > > > > What do you think? Please vote with: > > > > * +1 - you agree with the above proposal. > > * -1 - you disagree with the above proposal. > > > > Again, feel free to provide feedback privately to me or publicly on the > > list. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jono > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:24:33 -0800 > From: Jack Deslippe <jdes...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment > Process > To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: > <11eb8a5c1003091124p7eec0428q3a7f5496f8a2...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all, > > I generally agree with what DW said (though the characterization of the > SoCal/NoCal mentality may be a bit simplified...). I have always been of > the opinion that the issues and personal problems in this group derive from > a lack of a well-defined and fair structure/by-laws. A couple months back, > I documented what I thought the root problem was and created a proposed > structure to address them. I did not submit it to the group in deference > for the ongoing process between Neal, Grant and Jono; though I thought this > process mostly hopelessly mired in fixing ill-effects instead of the root > cause of trouble. > > However, I find Jono's email from yesterday to begin to address the root > cause (the lack of well-defined structure) of our problems. I think his > proposed leadership model would ensure equality in the group (everyone gets > to vote) and define a clear path towards leadership for those wishing to > bring change to the group. The model, coupled with a some simple by-laws > defining membership, the role of the leader and how decisions are made > locally and statewide would in my opinion go a long way towards solving the > structural and personal problems in the group. > > Here is the link to my document mentioned above for the record: > > http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AVvuU9dbI-YnZGhtOWh6cHZfNDNmNzRoaDNkdw&hl=en > - I hope the forward illustrates why the problems in the group derive > from > the lack of structure. I am by no means attached to the particular details > of the proposal in this document. It is simply an example. I think > supplementing Jono's proposed leadership structure with some sort of > by-laws > would certainly be sufficient - without the need for council member from > each area. > > If it is not clear, this email and the google-document represent my > opinions > only and not those of other NoCal members. > > -Jack > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:24 AM, David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ < > ubu...@darkwingduck.org> wrote: > > > On 03/09/2010 07:58 AM, David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ wrote: > > > On 03/09/2010 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon wrote: > > >> Hi All, > > >> > > >> I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little > > >> confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that > the > > >> leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would > > >> benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel > > >> that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1. > > >> > > >> Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all! > > >> > > >> Jono > > >> > > > > > > -1 > > > > > > For my reasons feel free to email me. > > > > > > DW > > > > > > > There have been a lot of questions about my vote. I figured that it > > would be more productive to reply with my reasons here. > > > > The issues in the group stem from a leadership style that Neal (Flannel) > > has. The issues have brought up a lot of controversy with the northern > > group. Grant (Grantbow) is one of the people that have brought the > > issues to light. It's a philosophy issue between how those in NorCal > > think and deal with problems vice those in SoCal. > > > > SoCal thinking has a way of saying "Problems will take care of > > themselves." The NorCal thinking is "Deal with the problem ASAP, fix it > > and move on." This is where you can break down the issue. My problem is > > that when/if a change of power takes place the issue of philosophy will > > not change. If someone from NorCal takes over then the issue still > > remains as those from SoCal will stir that we are spending too much time > > focused on the problems and not enough on what a LoCo should do. > > > > This is why I feel this course of action is like a very small band-aid > > to a larger problem. What should be done is a set of bylaws on how to > > deal with issues, leadership and how to conduct business. Changing > > leaders will not solve this issue. > > > > DW > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-us-ca mailing list > > Ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/attachments/20100309/6ed01fc0/attachment.htm > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Ubuntu-us-ca mailing list > Ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca > > > End of Ubuntu-us-ca Digest, Vol 34, Issue 4 > ******************************************* >
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