Kasangwawo,
I seriously shudder for you. In fact you are the one who should get real and
wake up your ignorant backside, so you know realism from mere dreams!!
Let me ask you this: How long has America been waging war in Irag? And how
much Iraqi oil have the coalition forces looted from the country since then?
And has there been any ultimatum issued by the oppositions, or even the
monarchy(where it applies) forces in each of the coalition forces' country, for
these sitting government decimating Iraq to butt out of their capitals?
Lets forget Iraq. Lets see what happened in the great lakes. Since Uganda,
Rwanda and Burundi invaded DRC and were in the country for years, how much
wealth do you think these governments have looted from the DRC? And has there
been any oppositions, let say even the monarchy, that has so far issued
ultimatum to these governments to butt out of Kampala, Kigali, or Bujumbura
because of the loots?
Why was the loot of the DRC so important to Kabaka Mutesa and his KY then,
but not any more important to Mengo today, when NRA/M looted the country as
well? And why was it ONLY Daudi Ochieng who was attacking Dr. Obote's
government on the question of this loot but not any true persons of Mengo(Don't
forget Daudi Ochieng was from the North)?
In my last rejoinder to you I asked you to let readers know how much Dr.
Obote and his entourage looted from Uganda public coffer. So far you have been
unable to avail readers with any loot of Uganda public funds made by Dr. Obote
and his cahorts. Instead you are dangling the loot of DRC! How should that be
of serious concerns to Ugandans of Mengo then, but no longer of any concerns to
mengo today?
Kasangwawo I think you are being too shallow. My attempts to fire you with
questions is to engage your mental capacity to come to the reality, looking
retrospectively on what you wrote. Unfortunately you are demonstrating that you
are incapable.
There is no more need for research on this issue. Everything is just about
known. Kabaka Mutesa therefore had no case against Dr. Obote 1 government.
That is as much as I can tell you. I am not one of the revisionists you tried
to allude to. I simply don't see a case by Kabaka Mutesa then.
Ocii
jonah kasangwawo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }
Ocii,
I know what you said and it was absolutely nothing. You still haven't told me a
single thing that's untrue in what I wrote. All I get are further questions
from you, in essence asking me to do the research for you. I wish you could get
off your lazy backside and try to find out for yourself the things you don't
know, instead of first arguing and then requesting to be enlightened. I have
neither the time nor the inclination to repeat all the reasons for Kabaka
Mutesa's case against Obote, because they are clearly spelt out in what I
wrote.
Corruption - this is not just a claim, there is concrete evidence of thousands
of pounds deposited on one of the looters' bank account (the group involved in
sharing the gold were disclosed as: Milton Obote, Onama, Nekyon and Idi Amin).
Obote was pressurized into putting up a Commission of Enquiry but made sure
that it's activities were limited. Restrictions were put on the type of
evidence the Commission could accept, e.g. "evidence adversely affecting the
reputation of any person, or tending to reflect in any way upon the character
or conduct of any person" was inadmissible. One of the people to whom the
Commission's activities would extend was Obote himself, who had recently
usurped all executive powers of the President and suspended the Constitution as
well as detaining five of his own ministers. The Commission itself was
appointed by and would report to one of his ministers. Surely it is not rocket
science for you to understand that, in these circumstances, the
Commission was rendered impotent and unable to carry out its activities
properly. Still, the Commission, even with these restrictions, was preparing a
report which was supposed to be ready by July 1964. Well, it was never
published.
Contrary to what you believe, the President (Kabaka Mutesa at the time), was
the Supreme Head and Commander-in-Chief of Uganda. In other words, he was the
Constitutional Head of State in whom the executive authority of Uganda vested
and the Prime Minister had to keep the President informed of all matters
concerning te conduct of Government. He was therefore not just ceremonial as
you claim.
It was Obote who sent Ugandan troops to Congo, only he 'forgot' to inform the
President. The issue was also never debated by Parliament prior to sending
them, thereby setting a bad precedent which would be repeated decades later by
the current President. So it was a unilateral decision by the Prime Minister
and an illegal one.
Kasangwawo.
---------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:14:06 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Ugnet] Fwd: Obote was right to attack Lubiri (Abbey Semuwemba)
To: [email protected]
Kasangwawo,
When I say Kabaka Mutesa had no case against Dr. Obote 1 government, I am not
just trying twist issues; I mean exactly what I said.
Since claim of corruption is in the centre of the 1966 crisis, can you tell
us, or bring to readers' attention how much public funds Dr. Obote and his
entourage then, looted from Uganda taxpayers?
And since to you, President Mutesa was the Commander-in-Chief (sorry for the
mixed-up in my initial response), how was it that Ugandan troops ended up in
Congo?
Ocii
jonah kasangwawo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass
EC_body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Ocii,
I still don't see where you refute my statements with facts. You have
highlighted huge chunks of what I wrote but did not disprove any of it. Can you
please tell me just a single thing that is not true in my article. Give me the
facts ! All you keep on repeating is that you don't see any fault by Obote in
overthrowing the constitution (of course you wouldn't, much as you are in love
with your hero), and that Ochieng was KY. So what, if he was KY ? Is it
because Obote wanted a one-party state that you think anything a member of
another party did was wrong ?
"Obote as the first president of Uganda" ! Are you kidding me ? Do you honestly
not know that Obote was not the first president of Uganda ? I might be wasting
my time here.
Kasangwawo.
---------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:02:56 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Ugnet] Fwd: Obote was right to attack Lubiri (Abbey Semuwemba)
To: [email protected]
Mr. Kasangwawo,
I did take time to read what you wrote on the crisis that led to Dr. Obote
taking action to establish law and order in the country in 1966.
Trust me Mr. Kasangwawo Baganda has absolutely no case against Dr. Obote as
the first president of Uganda, or even as a person, dead as he is, for kicking
Kabaka Mutesa out of Mengo.
This is the part that interested me in your write-up. The rest are your
opinion, that to me does not count, until when we know exactly what led to the
crisis.
You have attempted to explain it; I wonder whether your explanation is based
on Kabaka Mutesa's book you mentioned to readers.
(((By J. Kasangwawo
It is not unusual for all sorts of people to declare that Mengo wanted to
kick Obote's government off Buganda soil, without making any attempt to mention
the events culminating in that act, thereby giving the impression that somehow
the members of the Lukiiko just woke up one fine morning and decided to order
Obote out of Buganda without any reason. As I will show below, several attempts
were made, not only by the Great Lukiiko but also by the then President Muteesa
II himself, to bring Obote to reason and convince him to change his ways and
retract his unconstitutional acts - all to no avail. It was only after all
attempts had failed, that the Lukiiko made it clear that the basis on which
Buganda had agreed to be part of an independent country called Uganda had been
violated and told Obote to remove his government from Buganda soil.
Having said that, the Lukiiko was the only institution that made any visible
attempt to stop Obote's illegal acts while others were numb due to his
machinations.
Now to the events:
The Uganda government had supported the Congolese Simba rebels led by Gbenye
(an army whose fighters dressed in monkey skins and cannibalized their
opponents) during the armed conflict between Tshombe and Gbenye in the early
60s. At the end of the operations, some Ugandan MPs started raising questions
as to who authorized the Uganda forces beyond guarding the Uganda border. There
were also allegations that gold and ivory was brought back and shared among
certain individuals. The issue was first publicly discussed in Parliament when
a government backbencher tabled a motion on 12th March 1965 concerning the
security situation in Buganda, the main objective of which was to ban Kabaka
Yekka (KY) by branding it a party of criminals. During the debate, a DP member,
Gaspari Oda, sought to amend the motion by adding corruption in the civil
service and armed forces, which he said was a factor in the insecurity not only
in Buganda but throughout the country. The amendment was
finally defeated but not before Daudi Ochieng (KY) and Alexander Latim (DP)
had introduced a lot of information in support of the amendment. Ochieng
confirmed that the insecurity was not confined to Buganda but was spread
throughout the country; that the soldiers patrolling near the Congo border in
West Nile were becoming lawless; that morale in the armed forces was low due to
the soldiers' belief that a few senior officers were making personal financial
gain out of the border incidents.
Ochieng also informed Parliament that Amin, who was then Deputy Commander of
the Uganda Army, had visited West Nile several times and had been seen bringing
back parcels to his home in Entebbe which he guarded with utmost security.
Through a mistake by the post office, whereby Amin's bank statement was put
into the wrong box, the following information about his deposits became
available: he had deposited $1,500 on 5th February 1965; $9,000 on 15th Feb;
$3,000 on 17th Feb; $28,250 on 26th Feb and $3,250 on 2nd March. As Amin had no
known private means of income, Ochieng wanted Onama, the Minister of Defence,
to initiate an investigation into this sudden windfall. Incidentally, Onama had
told Parliament at the beginning of the debate that Amin's bank account stood
at $2,400.
Before introducing the information to Parliament, Ochieng and Latim had the
courtesy of informing Onama and the Inspector General of Police about the whole
situation. When Amin got wind of the reports, he phoned Latim and threatened to
kill him and Ochieng. He later apologized to both gentlemen claiming that he
had been upset by the allegations about his bank account. Onama, on his part,
dismissed the allegations against Amin calling them "latrine talks". He even
suggested that Amin's relatives had given him the money, or that Congolese
refugees might have given it to him for safe keeping. Realizing the futility of
his justifications, Onama promised to initiate investigations into the matter.
The investigations were never carried out, since Brigadier Opolot, the
Commander of the Uganda Army, was prevented from initiating them according to
the Military Law.
The matter was left unanswered until Ochieng revived it on 4th February 1966
after the Penal (Amendment) Bill, section 41, which sought to curb the
activities of KY, had been passed. His motion sought to suspend Amin pending
investigations into his account. Ochieng alleged that some members of the
government, together with Colonel Amin, were planning a coup to overthrow the
Constitution. During the debate, it was disclosed that Milton Obote, Felix
Onama and Adoko Nekyon, Minister of Planning and Community Development, had
received large amounts of money from gold and elephant tusks from Congo after
Uganda Army's incursions into that country. All the ministers present, except
Onama (who denied the charges), were of the opinion that there was substance in
the allegations. The Prime Minister knew that Ochieng would introduce the
motion on 4th February but in his usual cowardly manner decided to go on a tour
of the North from 1st Feb. until 12th Feb. All MPs present on both
sides of the House, except government-backbencher John Kakonge, agreed to the
suspension of Idi Amin and the police investigations. Nevertheless, Colonel
Amin was just given two weeks' leave in contradiction to Parliament's wishes.
Kakonge curiously stated that Obote's absence was suspicious.
On 13th February 1966, nine days after the accusations against him, Obote
called a press conference and denied ever receiving gold or tusks from Congo or
participating in any plans to overthrow the Constitution. As to the suspension
of Amin, he said that there were still legal hitches to be straightened out
before Parliament's resolution could be put into effect. Meanwhile, Onama, Amin
and Nekyon also denied the accusations and demanded an apology from Ochieng
within two days, which Ochieng rightly ignored. On 15th February the Cabinet
asked Obote to read a statement to the press announcing its decision to set up
a judicial commission to investigate Ochieng's allegations. He also called on
Ochieng to make a statement to the police by 19th February.
Ochieng made the statement to the police but instead of suspension, Obote
promoted Amin to the post of Commander of Uganda Army with effect from 23rd
February 1966 and created a new post of Military Advisor to the Cabinet into
which he moved Brigadier Opolot. (this is nowadays called 'putting someone on
katebe').
On 22nd February, Obote out of the blue staged a coup d'etat against his own
government and usurped all powers with the following statement:
'In the interest of national stability and public security and tranquility, I
have today, the 22nd day of February 1966, taken over all powers of the
government of Uganda. (under which article of the constitution ?) I shall
henceforth be advised by a Council whose members I shall name later. I have
taken this course of action independently because of my understanding of the
wishes of the people of this country for peace, order and prosperity. (yeah,
right !) Five former ministers have today been put under detention pending
investigations into their activities. I call upon the judges and magistrates,
civil servants - both Uganda and expatriate members of the security forces and
the general public to carry on with their normal duties. I take this
opportunity to assure everybody that the whole situation is under control.'
The five ministers who were arrested during a cabinet meeting and put under
detention were: Dr. E.S. Lumu - Minister of Health and Chairman of UPC Buganda
Region; Grace Ibingira - Minister of State and Chairman of UPC Ankole Kingdom;
M. Ngobi - Minister of Agriculture & Cooperatives; B.K. Kirya - Minister of
Mineral and Water Resources and Chairman of UPC Bukedi District and G.B. Magezi
- Minister of Housing and Labour.
Obote's acts were the beginning of unconstitutionalism in Uganda.)))
Mr. Kasangwawo if from the above writing you cannot see that Kabaka Mutesa
had completely no case agains Dr. Obote's government of that time then I
seriously shudder.
Ochieng was apparently a KY. And given the security concern in Buganda,(NOT
throughout Uganda, that was KY manipulations) KY being suspected, and consider
further that all these allegagtions and accussations that led to the 1966
crisis were just about the brain child of (Ochieng?), do you seriously see a
case against Dr. Obote 1 government?
I have highlighted part of what I consider either important or outright flaw,
in making decision on the crisis, in blue.
I seriously don't see any fault by Dr. Obote in making a move against the
Unity government. It was the Kabaka and his KY, that Ochieng was fronting for,
who were grossly mistaken and definitely engaged in acts of sedition in
attempting to assume power by any means.
I could be entirely wrong.
Ocii
jonah kasangwawo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass
EC_body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} BWambuga,
is it then any surprise that this topic of Buganda/Obote keeps coming up, when
people like you are persisting on distributing misinformation about what really
happened ? It is not about whether Obote was stupid or dumb. It is a well-known
fact that he was cunning as a fox and ready to usurp all powers by any means.
This included pretending to be nice to people he didn't particularly like, in
order to deceive them about his ultimate intentions. So it is no wonder that
Buganda and the Kabaka at first believed him. But it didn't take long for his
true colours to come out.
In his book (the correct name is "Desecration of my kingdom"), Kabaka Mutesa II
clearly explained the reasons why he, in his capacity as President, had
requested for foreign troops. The request for troops was not to invade Uganda,
as you and Obote claim, but on the contrary, it was an attempt to save the
country from a Prime Minister who was bent on overthrowing the constitution by
force of arms and wrest all powers to himself. Statements had been made by
members of parliament that troops were secretly being trained to do just that.
Army officers who did not share this illegal aim were even detained or
suspended. On his return to Kampala from his hiding place in the North in
February 1966, Obote himself admitted that there was great alarm due to troop
movements, especially in Kampala. Neither Mutesa, as the Commander-in-Chief,
nor the Brigadier, who was head of the army, had authorized these troop
movements. Obote had ordered the movements himself.
The Kabaka states in the book that when he requested for foreign troops, he was
thinking about something similar to the intervention Obote had initiated 2
years before this incident. Hopefully you are aware that in 1964 Obote had
invited British troops to quell a mutiny by Uganda soldiers in Jinja who,
incidentally, were not attempting to take over the country but rather were just
demanding for higher pay. This he did without informing the President who was
Commander-in-Chief of the Uganda Army. It appears this was his modus operandi.
In any case, Obote used this incident to sack some soldiers and promote those
he wanted in control to carry out his illegal manipulations, among them the
then Major Idi Amin.
If you want to learn more about this go to the following link:
http://www.federo.com/index.php?id=144
The claim that Obote's regime wired money to the Kabaka when he was in exile in
London is also a myth, without an iota of truth. There is concrete evidence
that Obote's government kept on protesting about the treatment they thought the
British were giving to the Kabaka (Obote felt they were still treating him as
king by refering to him as Kabaka). The British govt. on the other hand was not
ready to support the Kabaka financially or otherwise, leaving him to rely on
support of friends - they were even pressurizing him to sell his property back
home in Buganda in order for him to survive. In short, they viewed him as a
burden. In these circumstances, the British would not mind anyone giving him
support, as long as it wasn't them. Therefore, for you to claim that they were
concerned about the Uganda government wiring him money, is an outright lie. The
only proposal Obote's government was ready to consider was the remittance of
private funds (from the sale of Kabaka's
property) to England for Sir Edward.
Kasangwawo.
---------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:46:42 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Ugnet] Fwd: Obote was right to attack Lubiri (Abbey Semuwemba)
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