hey all,

Matt's post a few days ago has me thinking, as I have looked at various ORM 
projects for PHP.  It seems like the few always referenced are Doctrine, 
Propel, and Redbean, (and I'm sure matt's NORM will be there soon ;).

However, i know there is a time and place for various technologies, as I have 
begun to dive into learning Doctrine, it seems intensely over complicated, and 
has significant performance problems  (from a handful of websites I've found).

Would someone (or many of you) help me understand where the benefits are in the 
added development time and learning, that cant be obtained by decent DB 
abstraction.  

I get the DB agnostic angle...  looking for additional prospectives and 
insights...

Many Thanks.

~Chad

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