I'll pipe in again, possibly triggering one or two souls again but
that's OK if it will help others. :)
So, I really feel for the people who are still having big problems using
SE and IDE. I've been there and felt that pain; it's no fun. LC without
code editing is quite restrictive. But the good news is that right now
I'm able to type up a storm in LC 9.
While a final fix may need to come from LC itself, hopefully the
remaining users with frequent problems can work around the problem and
get running again quickly with logic and a little luck. Don't give up!
In my case, (A) I was having huge problems with the newest LC 9's on my
old but not-too-old Windows laptop, (B) the old laptop hardware got sick
so I bought a new one, (C) the new laptop had problems with the newest
9's too, so I took time out to discuss and report the bug.
Then (D) when I had a chance I changed some software on the new laptop
including AV, (E) most of the problems went away; I couldn't reproduce
the bug for a better recipe as I intended, (F) I heard back from LC that
disabling Windows Defender had helped several people, (G) I looked at my
settings and sure enough my new AV had replaced the Windows Defender
features in question. Of course a few other variables were in the mix
including different projects I was working on and tweaks to other AV(s)
and other software and settings on the machine.
Afterwards (H) some people notified me of similar Mac symptoms, I was
interested but some time later (I) it happened on my Mac too. Wow! I was
surprised, in the middle of a bunch of stuff so no recipe, but there it
was. Assuming that the same symptoms is likely the same bug - not a
certainty but a good possibility. Furthermore (J) given that this topic
still exists as of today - with even some very savvy and accomplished
LiveCoders affected -I assume that the quick fix on Windows Defender,
while it works for most people, doesn't work for everyone even on Windows.
So to summarize some probable points:
1. It's not just Windows Defender; WD's techniques have followed other
AVs' "innovations" and are in turn being followed by yet other AVs. Over
the years I've had to chastise more than one AV for not playing nice
with LiveCode. In the AV world WD is not unique; it's just currently
very widespread, bundled with the OS. Fortunately as a result, for this
SE slowdown the WD fix works for most. But others should take heart and
keep digging.
2. It's not just Windows. Other people have seen the SE symptoms on Mac,
and now that includes myself. (Today I even witnessed a possible case of
a Mac AV messing some things up in the Mac IDE!)
3. It's not just AV. Although AV is usually involved (not always),
there's another side to the coin. Merely editing and formatting text,
while the IDE is open but in a fairly static condition, ideally should
not present opportunities for AV to constantly get involved. Of course
there's also any user scripts that may be executing at the same time.
But if the user plays nice and doesn't have any faulty scripts running,
the IDE should also play nice and not take actions that would involve AV
unnecessarily or in excess. Why? Because this suggests the possibility
of actions (such as file access) or the timing of such actions that
would lower performance anyway, besides opening the door to other
potential current or future issues. If SE and/or the IDE have some weak
code, it needs fixing to banish these symptoms forever and ensure a more
robust IDE. Good code ensures no ghosts in the machine, and ghosts
suggest weak code. I strongly suspect improvements are needed.
4. Individual computers are different, especially the software
installed. If you're having problems, look at your AV settings and try
some tweaks. Try turning off some real-time protection options
temporarily, or whitelisting LC. If your AV is the hard-headed type,
maybe try a different one altogether. There's even the possibility of
other software on your system that is not strictly labeled AV. Once
you're typing away in LC 9, believe me it's worth the effort of finding
it. In my case I was forced to change AV anyway because McAfee (the
default) was doing some crazy things including disabling firewall from
time to time. Whatever the key is on your particular system, I think
it's likely that the problem can be worked around until the IDE is
beefed up. Don't give up.
5. It's a complex problem. We have the IDE plus the SE plus any user
stacks or addons, all very important to factor in, plus OS, AV, and
other software. Lots of things going on. Is the weakness is in the SE or
other parts of the IDE, maybe even a special combination required to
trigger the problems? And what triggers it on Mac? Not to mention user
stack code. We do need one or more clean, simple, reliable recipe(s).
If someone who still has the problems, or someone who can just flip a
software setting switch and experience the problem at will, can
reproduce this and make a recipe with a fresh brand new stack in a fresh
IDE instance, that may help. (Or a very reliable recipe for a more
complex scenario.) Unfortunately I am no longer among those who can just
flip a switch, due to my current AV's override, that's the state of my
computer and I can't make huge changes right now with projects going on.
Therefore it would be great if someone else can do this. Maybe more than
one user could make a recipe! There's no guarantee that this is caused
by a single factor, although I hope it is.
To reassure any faint of heart, I have great confidence in LC and
currently exclusively use LC in ALL my professional software dev and
consulting, something few others can honestly say. Not rehashing this to
enjoy goosing the easily triggered or to test list bandwidth, but rather
summarizing what we (may) know because some people are still having
problems right now, and I hope this may help them work around it right
now. If it should be 1 bug or 100 bugs, I'm fine with that.
To those people still having the slow SE: Keep trying as time allows -
look at your AV and other software, your user stacks (try it fresh) and
addons, your LC and SE settings. Consider making a recipe; it may help
you to workaround immediately, as well as helping LC on a final fix. I
hope that you, like myself, can get back happily to work using LC 9 on
platform of choice where this particular issue is concerned!
(There are some other annoyances in SE and IDE which I'll be
QA-reporting soon if they haven't been already, others please report
them first if you have the time. But this SE slowdown was the biggest
and baddest of them all. It really was a showstopper on 9 until I
changed my AV, so to any still affected, I really hope and believe you
can find the key to get thing running well enough on your system at
least most of the time.)
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
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