HI Phill,
The subscription and download payment model began in the world of video
games with downloadable content (DLC). Many software manufacturers
quickly realized that charging for content downloads or monthly
application use could be a lucrative business. This model has since
evolved into SaaS (Software as a Service) payments. However, this
approach is fundamentally unfair, as users must continue paying for the
software even if they do not need continuous updates, or they must stop
using it altogether.
This situation is as absurd as buying bricks and mortar to build a house
and then being forced to pay a monthly fee for those materials, even if
you do not want your house renovated every six months. This critique is
not aimed at Livecode specifically but at the software industry in
general. Over time, people will likely begin to reject this business
model and seek alternatives.
This scenario mirrors the 1980s when people, frustrated with the high
prices of mainframes and minicomputers, switched to personal computers.
Similarly, those fed up with the exorbitant costs of UNIX systems
transitioned to Windows NT and eventually to LINUX. While you can
exploit customers for a while when they feel captive, they are much
smarter and more resourceful than companies might think.
Best,
Hery
On 7/29/24 10:57, Phil Smith via use-livecode wrote:
Yes, the subscription model in general, not just LiveCode, is set up that way.
You are actually paying for features ahead of time with the subscription model.
At least that's how I see it.
I know that's the industry standard now, I just *hate* it, though.
But don't take that as an attack on Livecode, that's just my personal opinion
on how software licensing works these days.
----------------------------------------
From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode"<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 7/29/24 9:36 AM
To: How to use LiveCode<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Kevin Miller<ke...@livecode.com>
Subject: Re: Individual licensing questions
I'm not sure I quite follow. I'm commenting on the SaaS model in the industry
vs the historic pay-per-upgrade model. You buy a SaaS platform then get updates
(sometimes dozens of them) each your as your subscription is current. 70% + of
business SW is SaaS now and growing. Any it was just intended to be a minor
point.
Kind regards,
Kevin
Kevin Miller ~ke...@livecode.com ~http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
On 29/07/2024, 15:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Phil Smith via use-livecode"
<use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf
ofuse-livec...@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
Maybe I'm not reading ths right but does that not say that you want customers
to pay for new features *before* they have been developed? When I buy a
product, I of course expect to have all the updates and platforms ready at that
time.
That's like saying that after I buy a new car, I have to start making
additional payments to pay for new features on the next vehicle and hope they
are ready when I buy it.
Really don't understand that statement.
----------------------------------------
From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode" <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
Sent: 7/29/24 7:27 AM
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
Cc: Kevin Miller <ke...@livecode.com <mailto:ke...@livecode.com>>
Subject: Re: Individual licensing questions
From a general business point of view, the business model where someone buys
an update every few years is not equitable. Customers expect you to have all
the new features or new platform support ready when they arrive for their
update, yet haven't paid for that to happen. Development costs continue
steadily throughout that intervening period.
However for this particular historic use case, its not something we want to get
in the way of. If those customers are still around in 3 years time when Classic
support ends I'm sure we can figure something out for you if you contact us
directly.
Kind regards,
Kevin
Kevin Miller ~ke...@livecode.com <mailto:ke...@livecode.com> <mailto:ke...@livecode.com
<mailto:ke...@livecode.com>> ~ http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/>
<http://www.livecode.com/> <http://www.livecode.com/>>
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
On 26/07/2024, 18:08, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com>>
<mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com>>> on behalf of use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>>> wrote:
I hope this is generic enough.
I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago
or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books
or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2
or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an
incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few
requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I
know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services.
My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars
more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because
it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are
now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not
feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is
required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5%
rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay |jac...@hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com>
<mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com>> <mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com
<mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com> <mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com
<mailto:jac...@hyperactivesw.com>>>
HyperActive Software |http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>
<http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>>
<http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>>>
On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode
<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>>> wrote:
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