Yes, that is why I myself lean towards a feature request. For example the following line could tell the engine to make a unique random number for each of the supplied lines, to not have the problem with lines that come first getting a higher probability:
sort theData by random(the number of lines in theData) of each On 23.05.2013, at 21:57, Dar Scott wrote: > I don't think anybody is claiming that random() does not work. (Some random > number generators will break with a bad seed, but that is outside the scope > of discussion.) When Chris thought random() was broken, most people > suggested he look at his code around the sort. > > The problem is that randomly assigning sort values will distort the sort > because of the handling when sort values are equal. The sort value is > assigned independently for each line or item. That means some will be the > same. > > In the same sense, if I sorted on length of the item, those items with the > same length will keep the same order. In this random() case, some will have > the same randomly selected number. > > Large values to random() reduces the distortion. For random(2) and a list of > 2, the first will be first again 75% of the time. For random(3) and a list > of 3, it will be first 53% of the time. For random(999999) it seems to be > first 50% of the time for either of those cases. > > I think you do have a point about lists eventually becoming larger than the > large number. If random does something reasonable with an super large number > than that might be better. > > Dar > > > > > > On May 23, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: > >> So much misinformation in this thread :( >> >> The random function works! it uses the same code as many other programs to >> do random stuff. Of course it's using a semi random list, but the >> technicalities about when random is not random enough does not come into >> place for sorting lines. >> >> sort the lines of theList by random(the number of lines in theList) >> >> This too works. there's no need to make an arbitrary large number _BECAUSE >> IT MIGHT IN SOME CASES DECREASE RANDOMNESS_. Mostly when your variable grows >> bigger then anticipated, so usually you're fine. But still, don't use >> arbitrary magic numbers, it's just bad coding habits. >> >> As for the original poster: DO NOT SET THE RANDOMSEED!!!! Then your code >> will start to work as expected, or as erroneous as you coded it ;-) >> >> >> On 23.05.2013, at 03:16, Jacques Hausser wrote: >> >>> Chris, I think Randy has put his finger on something: the * is before any >>> number or letter in the ASCII numeration. I do not know what the random >>> function uses when randomizing a "set" (I was not even aware of this >>> possibility) but that could well be the ASCII value(s) of the first >>> char(s). >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> Le 23 mai 2013 à 02:36, Randy Hengst <iowahen...@mac.com> a écrit : >>> >>>> Well Chris, I'm sure you've already tried this, but when this kind of >>>> thing happens to me… in other words, when a script is correct, but the >>>> results are wrong… I've messed something up later in the script with >>>> another put statement that overrides it. Maybe the place in the script >>>> where you've removed the * >>>> >>>> My debugging skills are not top notch… So, I'd brute force things and put >>>> an "answer tPossibleAnswers" after each line to see what is happening… and >>>> again at the end of the handler. >>>> >>>> I'd be interested in what you discover. >>>> >>>> be well, >>>> randy >>>> ----- >>>> On May 22, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the suggestions everyone, but I'm still getting strange >>>>> results, and I'm beginning to think there's something I'm doing that's >>>>> affecting use of the random() function. Not really sure what it would be >>>>> though. Here's my code: >>>>> >>>>> set the itemDel to tab >>>>> put "*" & item 3 of sRecSet into tPossibleAnswers -- correct answer >>>>> put cr & item 4 of sRecSet after tPossibleAnswers -- distractor 1 >>>>> put cr & item 5 of sRecSet after tPossibleAnswers -- distractor 2 >>>>> sort lines of tPossibleAnswers by random(999999) -- randomly re-order the >>>>> list >>>>> >>>>> This app pulls words from a database and presents three possible answers >>>>> to choose from. The asterisk above is used to identify the correct answer >>>>> after the sort takes place. It's removed later on. The sort only works >>>>> randomly one time. After that, the same sort order is used every time, so >>>>> the correct answer *always* ends up listed first. It doesn't matter if I >>>>> use a very high number or if I use 'the number of lines of >>>>> tPossibleAnswers'. Something is very strange. Just as a quick test, I >>>>> added a button to the card with this inside: >>>>> >>>>> put "one" & cr & "two" & cr & "three" into tLines >>>>> sort lines of tLines by random(the number of lines of tLines) >>>>> answer tLines >>>>> >>>>> This seems to work just fine. Yes, it does mean getting the same order >>>>> sometimes twice or maybe even three times in a row, but not usually more >>>>> than that, which would be fine in this case. So I'm not sure what's going >>>>> on with my actual code. I'm no longer setting the randomSeed or anything >>>>> like that. >>>>> >>>>> The other strange thing is no matter what I try, if I use the random() >>>>> function or the any keyword in anyway, I get similar results. Something >>>>> is affecting the "randomness". This is for an iOS app, btw, if that makes >>>>> any difference to anyone. This might be kind of a dumb thing to do, but >>>>> the only other thing I can think of would be to add several more lines of >>>>> data to the three actual possible answers, then sort the whole thing, >>>>> then somehow filter out everything I added before the sort. With more >>>>> lines, maybe I'd get better results? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again, >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> On May 22, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Dar Scott <d...@swcp.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think you are going to get the first line of the original list >>>>>> (correct answer) about half the time. Does that seem right to you from >>>>>> what you have seen? The correct answer will be in the first two about >>>>>> 80% of the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Using the larger argument for random should give you better proportions. >>>>>> You should get it in the first line a third of the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you only interested in the first line, there might be some methods >>>>>> that are clearer and more fun. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dar >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 22, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a list of three words that I need to be randomly sorted. To >>>>>>> start with, the first word is the correct answer to a question. I want >>>>>>> to re-order the list so that the correct answer may be the second or >>>>>>> third word, and not necessarily the first. How can I do this >>>>>>> successfully every time? The docs give an example like this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sort lines of myVar by random(the number of lines of myVar) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But this only seems to work successfully one time. After that, the list >>>>>>> is always set so the first word is the correct answer. So then I tried >>>>>>> randomly setting the randomSeed value, since this value is supposed to >>>>>>> affect the random() function and the any keyword, but this didn't seem >>>>>>> to make much difference except to change it so either the second or >>>>>>> third word is *always* the right answer. I need it to be more mixed up >>>>>>> than that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So does anyone have a good way to do this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Chris Sheffield >>>>>>> Read Naturally, Inc. >>>>>>> www.readnaturally.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> -- >> >> Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: >> http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ >> >> Chat with other RunRev developers: >> http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Use an alternative Dictionary viewer: http://bjoernke.com/bvgdocu/ Chat with other RunRev developers: http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/ _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
