sorry i have been out on the water chasing whales for a couple of weeks and am behind in the rev list.

Peter,

I beg to differ on this point. Almost all my clients are poor educational and charitable orgs. the big thing here (which others have mentioned) is total cost of use of the equipment, not just the hardware price. PCs only do well with small orgs when there is someone (usually a volunteer) that is very handy with computers and willing to come in and keep things going. i have had many orgs take donation pcs or buy cheap pcs with costs in mind only to end up spending horrendous amounts of time (and in some cases money) keeping things running. Macs have traditionally had very low total cost of ownership costs in many ROI studies and this has also been proven out many times in my personal experience in this sector. If an org does not have someone that can manage a pc well then it can be trouble. linux is totally over the heads of all the small non profits i work with. IT support is totally non existent with most small non profits. even if they have a good staff member or volunteer to keep things running this is dangerous since if they leave the org is screwed (i know i have lived through this a few times).

In education the gifts of apple equipment did get some loyalty, but the big reason that macs still have a large share of that market is that they are easy to keep going and the hardware tends to live on and on and on (sometimes you just want to go out and shoot an old machine since its so old, but still chuggin along and no one wants to loose a machine thats working!). they can also be managed by a teacher with just a little bit of computer savvy and willingness to just play with things. the first thing in school budgets to go are education IT support (administration keeps getting it) and computer lab instructors/managers. the support goes but the hardware is still there...

I had these points drive home really hard when i went back to my old high school to teach for a year. i had a mac lab that was a mish mash of like 7 or 8 models ranging in age from new to 7 or 8 years old. i had about 30 some odd desk tops and another 25 laptops. down the hall we new pc lab with 25 dells all identical and a full time tech (he didnt teach, just kept things running and installed stuff) who was ms certified up the wazoo. i was not certified in any way (certifications, certifications, we dont need no stinking certifications!) and was teaching full time. i usually had a machine or two down and usually they were just waiting for a hardware order to come in or just the spare hour to fix things. the pc lab usually had 4-5 machines down at any time. i would see the tech in there earnestly trying to fix them for hours. The pc lab was paid for by a grant from the business classes (they thought it was wrong to learn computing on a mac) and halfway through the first quarter i had most of the business instructors begging for some spare time in the mac lab to do their classes.

the last funny thing lately has been about 5 small business owners i know in the last 6 months have called up and asked what macs they should buy for their business. they were all hard core pc users and were all pretty savvy computer users and the last people in the world i would have ever thought would switch sides (each of them were some of my worst rassers of me using macs mostly). They all said pretty much exactly the same thing that they just had the last straw drawn and realized how much time they were wasting keeping the computers running instead of using the computer to do their work and get income.

personally i have had to work both sides of the fence (mac, pc and others) over the last 20 years and i keep realizing the same thing that the extra investment up front really pays off on the long run and i think this proves true to a lot of folks out there...

cheers

Jeffrey Reynolds


On Jul 15, 2007, at 6:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

But for poor educational or charitable sector organizations to buy Minis just seems to me a totally disordered sense of priorities. Still more if a prime
purpose is to run Rev, which is (one of its pleasures) so remarkably
forgiving of low end hardware. I have had absolutely no, zero, complaints about responsiveness on our 500Mhz machine running the Rev app. Its instant.
If we were teaching programming on it, using Rev, I think it would be
perfectly fine and at least as responsive as a Mini. The graphics are of the
same generation anyway.

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