At 3:01 PM +0300 9/11/01, Douglas Wagner wrote:
>I've worked with HyperTalk and AppleScript. Yet I spent about 45 minutes
>yesterday trying every syntactic variation I could think in an attempt to
>count a popup list, without success. Part of that time was spent searching
>through Help. No go. Not even a hint. (Of course the information may be in
>there. Part of my point is that I couldn't find it)!
I know it can be confusing at times. I've had times like that myself. First, here's
the line:
put the number of lines of btn "test1"
That puts the number of entries in the button (whatever its style).
>2 The widget set is limited but, draws well, looks good and is a joy
>to manipulate.
The widget set is actually quite large. It's deceptive because many widget types are
lumped into the basic categories of fields and buttons. By actual count, Revolution
has more widgets than REALbasic.
<snip>
>The important ideas here are these:
>1 The methods, properties, events and controls of each object are
>described in detail in Help and there are plenty of examples and cross
>references. Code examples can be dragged into the editor if necessary. And
>the editor has code completion. (Luxury).
Revolution's help also describes these items in detail. Examples are available, but
also being added to. Hold down the option key to select any text (including examples)
and copy it. Rev's editor has code completion (not as thorough as RB's, but also not
as obtrusive)
>2 The IDE is well organized and minimalist. I found it so easy to use
>(and so obvious) I laughed!
REALbasic's environment does less, and is therefore simpler, just as a golf cart is
simpler than a passenger car.
>3 Online help is excellent and ought to be plagiarized shamelessly by
>anyone interested in supplying practical online help for a new application.
>
>REALBasic is at v 3.5 while Revolution is v1.0. That is a significant
>difference, so it will be interesting to see how Rev develops in the
>future.
Agreed, although the version number alone means little. Given that Revolution has a
significant head start in many areas (and lags behind in some others), it's going to
be very interesting.
>If Rev cost the same as REALBasic I'd buy it and use it along with
>REALBasic. However, the price is much too high merely to see what can be
>done. The 10 line limit is a serious obstacle and not a wise way to limit
>the evaluation copy. I believe the RR marketing weasels need to be reigned
>in.
This is an unfair characterization. The only thing available for free from REALbasic
is the demo, which runs only for a limited time, will not run at all after a certain
time frame, and will build only applications that are non-functional (they quit after
a few minutes).
In contrast, Revolution's starter kit is free for unlimited use. Build anything you
can, use it any way you like, as long as you like. Build and distribute commercial
applications. CGIs aren't even limited by the script length limit. It's all available
for free, with no strings attached.
>Recently Geoff demonstrated how an AS script could be rewritten to the 10
>line limit. That script was merely a short button script from the calendar
>window in a project with 27 windows and hundreds of window objects. The
>main script in the calendar window has 211 lines, excluding comments. All
>of this is just the basic GUI. I've not started on the serious coding yet.
>So the project isn't even half finished.
Bring it on :-) More to the point, bring on the fundamental requirements, so we can
honestly assess whether Rev is up to the task, and how it compares to REALbasic for
the task. Specifically, I think you'll find it challenging and tedious to pass
data/information from one window to another among your 27 windows. Take a look at how
to do that in REALbasic.
>A better Rev offer would be a standard copy at $100 with a "personal use"
>license. Charge more for a "Professional" version. That approach seems to
>be an industry standard.
Anything that costs less is always better, of course. But I don't understand what you
mean by "industry standard." Prices in the industry range from free for java and other
tools to thousands of dollars for products like Director and iShell. There's probably
something more expensive than that. Each must be judged for its value versus its cost.
>Keep in mind a new user interested in exploring the capabilities of the
>application must spend a good deal of time developing a working methodology
>for the IDE, and learning the language and it's syntax. Only then can he
>begin to explore the real capabilities. In the end that time will be a wash
>if the application is not up to the job. Add to the time spend on
>evaluation, time spent reporting bugs and list discussions, and then
>consider one is being asked to pay a high price for the privilege of doing
>the work. I don't like to think of how many applications of various sorts
>I've bought in the past that turned out to be lemons. Embarrassing.
This is again an unfair slight. Revolution is a powerful tool suitable for many tasks.
It is in many ways arguably the easiest way to program a computer that has yet been
invented. It has a few rough spots, but hopefully those can be smoothed out. And
remember, the list is always here, ready to help.
regards,
Geoff
