Good evening Hans,

How does Maven deal with this problem?


hdockter wrote:
> 
> 
> On Jun 18, 2008, at 8:04 AM, Ittay Dror wrote:
> 
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> Hans Dockter wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 18, 2008, at 5:46 AM, Ittay Dror wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Hans,
>>>>
>>>> I read the roadmap document, impressive.
>>>>
>>>> I have one comment to make: about classloader isolation. do you  
>>>> think it is
>>>> really necessary? look at firefox, that has a very rich set of  
>>>> non-trivial
>>>> plugins. I don't think it has any isolation.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm guessing your reasons for wanting this, it is to prevent  
>>>> clashes when
>>>> two plugins require two versions of the same library. I think  
>>>> this is a very
>>>> rare case.
>>>
>>> It is rare but not that rare. I have been hitten by this a couple  
>>> of times. And look at Ivy. The reason why Ivy does not provide  
>>> WebDav support right now, is that commons-vfs (which is used by  
>>> Ivy) would need httpclient 2.x to provide this but Ivy itself uses  
>>> httpclient 3.x.
>>>
>> That is why I suggested providing this as an optional utility. So the
>> author of webdav-plugin will have some way of saying 'run inside a
>> private class loader' (which is really not a complex thing to achieve
>> for a specific case). Maybe also make it available to users, to solve
>> conflicts between plugins (whose authors are not aware of each other).
>> But not to make it something that always happens. I think this is a
>> general rule: if some complex use case requires a certain feature,  
>> make
>> a utility that provides this feature, rather than incorporating it  
>> into
>> the general framework.
>>>> However, if class loading is always used, it makes the system
>>>> more complex and less efficient. Maybe make this just a utility  
>>>> that plugins
>>>> can use?
>>>
>>> I was thinking about having an OSGi based plugin system. But  
>>> people have warned me that OSGi is a very complex technology. I'm  
>>> not sure yet.
>> I don't think it is complex, but I think it will increase the time to
>> the initial bootstrap.
> 
> This is an important point.
> 
>> I think a build tool should primarily stay simple
>> and light weight. For that reason, please don't go with any type of  
>> IOC
>> container.
> 
> This is not on the agenda.
> 
>> I like the approach here:
>> http://gulopine.gamemusic.org/2008/jan/10/simple-plugin-framework/ for
> 
> I will have a look at this. I will also have a look at the Grails  
> plugin system.
> 
> - Hans
> 
>> creating extensions.
>>> On the one hand we want to deliver something within a reasonable  
>>> time frame and no excessive complexity on the other hand it should  
>>> have enterprise quality (whatever this means ;)). As yet I have  
>>> hardly any opinions on implementation details.
>> It should be a simple tool that keeps simple plugins simple and allows
>> complex plugins to achieve what they want. I think this is the area
>> where maven failed: any plugin that is used incurs a lot of overhead
>> (because the maven container does so many things) and is complex to
>> configure
>> (<build><plugins><plugin><artifactId>...</artifactId><groupId>...</ 
>> groupId><version>...</version><configuration>.............</ 
>> configuration></plugin></plugins></build>
>> just to set a simple property. Btw, it is so complex but I can't
>> reference one configuration parameter of the plugin in another).
>>>
>>> - Hans
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ittay
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hdockter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> there is now a roadmap available at: http://gradle.org/roadmap.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I have become convinced that a 1.0 release should not wait longer
>>>>> than necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all your input
>>>>>
>>>>> - Hans
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 12, 2008, at 10:22 PM, pinus wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hdockter wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.0 means API stability. For this Gradle should have a reasonable
>>>>>>> install base so that we have enough feedback to be confident  
>>>>>>> that all
>>>>>>> major use cases are properly covered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have a chicken and egg problem here. Who has time to check an
>>>>>> early release of an open source program? Just wait for the 1.0,
>>>>>> this will
>>>>>> be beta enough to test. No testers no response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A roadmap is very important for me to decide if I seriously try or
>>>>>> wait.
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Roadmap-
>>>>>> tp17752996p17808294.html
>>>>>> Sent from the gradle-user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Hans Dockter
>>>>> Gradle Project lead
>>>>> http://www.gradle.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Roadmap- 
>>>> tp17752996p17959213.html
>>>> Sent from the gradle-user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Hans Dockter
>>> Gradle Project lead
>>> http://www.gradle.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> --
>> Ittay Dror <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
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>>
> 
> --
> Hans Dockter
> Gradle Project lead
> http://www.gradle.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 


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