Jonathon
"I'm currently attempting to document ALL of those terms...". I am happy to
help with this because I would rather not spend gobs of hand-holding time.
I expect to go live with my first customer in about 2 months and they will
have to live with a majority of the functionality in its current state. A
"jargon dictionary" would be very helpful to them.
I have 20 years experience with these folks and have written two accounting
applications used by hundreds of users over that time, so I "think" I have a
fair understanding of the terminolgy in the industries I have served. It is
my experience that GL, A/P and A/R are fairly generic. Beyond that, the
lingo begins to diverge.
If you will give me a list of the modules you haven't done yet, maybe we can
split the load and feed the result back to the community.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:04 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
Skip,
I agree with you, as will many other VARs who have taken up OFBiz.
I'm currently attempting to document ALL of those terms, everything OFBiz
but above the framework.
After that, I'll be approaching the real world (not the OFBiz world) to
tally the facts and
figures, and to get a good list of the discrepancy between "OFBiz world" and
"real world". Such a
"mapping" between OFBiz and the real world will make it MUCH easier for me
to talk to future clients!
As it is now, more than half of my projects required some work to gravitate
OFBiz towards the real
world. In particular, accounting is a major void. Payment processing has
some holes too.
> That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people
> to use Ofbiz OOTB. It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the
> UI using terms understood by the people using them.
Definitely. All of my projects required that. Changing the UI.
I'm not saying which ERP terminologies are de facto or "best practice". It's
just a real world
observation.
Either OFBiz moves towards the real world, or vice versa. There are some
clients who say they want
to follow best practices, and they want to try going with the "OFBiz way of
doing things".
Whatever we do, I think it'll be fun to focus on channeling all we got into
OFBiz and make it more
viable in the real world. Well, unless OFBiz overtakes the number one ERP
system. :)
Jonathon
Skip wrote:
Tim
Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve. My apologies. Let me respond briefly.
"Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB".
My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here. I am a software
engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for testing. I
am
implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow.
It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz
applications,
are not designed for the real people to use. As some examples, go to your
friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager
type
person the meaning of these terms:
Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is
Capture,
Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum,
etc. etc.
If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and they
have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised. I would actually
be
surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head. These are a
few
of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back
office
applicatons. There are hundreds more. To use these applications OOTB,
the
person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly
jargon.
Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but critical
when needed.
That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use
Ofbiz OOTB. It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using terms
understood by the people using them.
By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here. I have evaluated lots of
ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and
commercial.
Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am
committed
to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it.
What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think
about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P
clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing
agents,
the sales folks, and all the rest.
Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute
have done.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ruppert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB,
but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their
business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to
get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp up
on the existing processes.
Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to
their
mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over
there.
Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595
On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:
Jacopo
Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open
Source
ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an
acronym
for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a
great
ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side.
I
would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users
up to
speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).
As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and
making
it earier for real people to use. Both products however need
considerable
customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
businesses.
It is though perfect for VARs like me.
My two $.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
Walter Vaughan wrote:
Len Parker wrote:
I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
"java -jar ofbiz.jar":
What does "java -version" say?
Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
Regarding your boss...
If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
looking for.
OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
can be used out of the box.
Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to
fit
their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is
efficient and easy.
There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
this gap soon.
Jacopo
If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal
with
GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE:
This
is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for
something
to show the pointy headed boss).
Welcome aboard!
--
Walter
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