Like I said BJ, it is not exactly like OFBiz. But I felt it was a good comparison for this discussion.
I am not technically proficient at a deep enough level to make a case for or against changing out any part of the stack. If I were going to make a case for it I would probably point to adoption as my reason rather than any specific technical point. There are a lot of developers and development managers out there that are experienced with the tools being mentioned in this thread such as Spring and Hibernate. Using familiar tools helps with adoption. ----- Original Message ----- From: "BJ Freeman" <bjf...@free-man.net> To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:04:50 AM Subject: Re: Brainstorming about the Framework: Data Tier thanks Vince. I would first look at the Data model it used compared to the Data model put forth in the Data model resource books. Does it cover all the data that the Data model that ofbiz has. ofbiz, in my view is not just an ERP application, but a Data and functional framework on which one of many application that is ERP is built. Currently I have a many type of applications built on ofbiz Data model. So I admit i am resistant to change, because of the manpower it would take to convert. And I believe that is the motivation of those presenting such sweeping changes. They are most familiar with the technology they are promoting. Admittedly ofbiz is not the easiest thing to learn and since it is not used outside ofbiz is not a general usage thing. Most talk about ERP, since it seems to be a Big Ticket(money) item. As a side note when I first moved to Java OO before I got to ofbiz, I had code to covert DB into a class for each table and procedures as methods. I don't consider this the optimum way to maintain or design an application(s) from Data to UI with the less amount of labor. In summation I would say that if someone presents a path to change to their format from ofbiz and convince me their method of maintainence is better, I might be interested. ======================= BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> Vince Clark sent the following on 3/13/2010 6:52 AM: > BJ - there is an application that uses many of these other tools. It is not > open source, but is assembled entirely from open source tools. > > http://elasticpath.com/whatweoffer/ecommerce-platform/ > > It is not exactly like OFBiz. It doesn't attempt to be an entire ERP system. > But close enough for comparison here. > > Vince Clark > vcl...@globalera.com > (303) 493-6723 office > (303) 523-4843 cell > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "BJ Freeman" <bjf...@free-man.net> > To: user@ofbiz.apache.org > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:04:08 AM > Subject: Re: Brainstorming about the Framework: Data Tier > > > Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there > not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all? > > I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't > really understand the design goals of ofbiz. > > ======================= > > BJ Freeman > http://bjfreeman.elance.com > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation > <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > Linkedin > <http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=1237480&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro> > > > huang.mi...@gmail.com sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM: >> While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't >> understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There are >> absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ project >> want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate", "Spring", >> etc, though? Are they all wrong? >> >> In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide >> developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the >> developer can define entity in one place and share the entity definition >> across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind of >> integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved >> consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what >> Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the integration. >> If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM >> like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar with >> OFBIZ already will use it. >> >> On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that >> can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability, while >> leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as >> Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition, >> Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive than >> "home made" every thing, isn't it? >> >> Regards, >> Miles. >> >> On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>> Hi David: >>> >>> Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are many >>> people out there who don't understand the Entity Engine value >>> proposition. That is why they keep asking for "Hibernate" etc. >>> >>> Here's some things I'd consider as additions: >>> >>> * Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity >>> Engine. Take it out of WebTools. >>> * Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to >>> the Entity Engine. >>> * Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how to use >>> existing tools). >>> * Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing >>> tools). >>> >>> More to come... >>> Ruth >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>> ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com >>> >>> David E Jones wrote: >>>> If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz (basically the >>>> Entity Engine), what would you change? >>>> >>>> All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to see used >>>> instead of the Entity Engine, please describe what you like about it (like >>>> "I want to have an Java class for each table in my database") instead of >>>> just mentioning the tool (like "let's use Hibernate!"). >>>> >>>> Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and it's true >>>> that many suggestions never get enough support to actually happen (or on >>>> further research it is decided that the idea is not tenable), but >>>> brainstorming about them to get ideas in the open is still a great thing. >>>> The history of OFBiz is full of things like this where users and more >>>> casual contributors had ideas and saw possibilities that others, even more >>>> involved contributors, totally missed or never looked at that way. What I >>>> think would be fun, and ultimately useful too, is to keep this mostly to >>>> brainstorming and not do too much comparing of ideas. >>>> >>>> BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or UI >>>> tiers) please use the other threads on those. If you'd like to discuss >>>> things that aren't specific to a tier look for the "General" thread. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > > >
