Hi Dakota Jack, very funny. I think someone had suggested to put this thread to OT.
BTW, I don't want spend too much time on this and I had said enough about you in my emails. Now I can focus on my job and be more productive by not having to write getters and setters manually. Only when I wrote million line codes I realized how insane to write something machine can produce perfectly to you. That's the difference between us. Jack H. Xu Technology columnist and editor http://www.usanalyst.com http://www.getusjobs.com (The largest free job portal in North America) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dakota Jack" To: "Struts Users Mailing List" Subject: Re: Struts vs .NET??? Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:54:18 -0700 > > Okay, okay, Reumann. Do you want to be right or do you want to be > loving? ///;-) Xu really is not all that atuned to computer stuff, > even though he is a computer journalist, so you might take him on as > your grasshopper? ///;-) > > On 7/5/05, Rick Reumann wrote: > > John Henry Xu wrote the following on 7/2/2005 6:43 AM: > > > > > Is writting > > > lots of getters and setters manually the most productive way in real > > > projects? > > > > You keep coming back to this getters and setters thing:) Like I said any > > editor (even vim:) can create getters and setters. I take it you think > > Struts is all about getters and setters? Seriously, don't take offense > > to this, but I'm wondering how many Struts applications you actually > > coded? I usually have several ActionForms and some beans which do have > > get/set methods. The beans (value objects/dto's) I'd have even if I was > > coding an application in Swing/.NET or whatever. So your main thrust > > here seems to be about ActionForms and get/set methods? Honestly that's > > such a small part of the whole process I still can't believe you are > > harping on it. I think we can terminate listening to your posts because > > of this statement: > > > > "My experience was Struts have more > > codes and configuration files than straight forward JSP+Javabean+taglibs > > approach that was done before." > > > > This tells me either: > > > > A) You haven't used Struts much > > > > OR > > > > C) The applications you write using your home-grown approach have to be > > quite sucky and would be a royal pain to maintain and refactor as > > requirements change. > > > > I make this claim because Struts (and other web application frameworks) > > provide ALREADY WRITTEN CODE in jars that you'd have to write YOURSELF > > if you didn't use a framework. So, to quote you, - more lines mean more > > time and a waste of money. So under your own logic you are costing your > > company a TON of money and you might want to think about adopting some > > web framework for your developers to start using. > > > > I can get into all the little things web frameworks provide, but here > > are some simple questions I have for you that maybe you can answer from > > 'your experience'... > > > > Where do your forms submit to? > > > > How do you handle/configure where the page forwards to after the request > > is sent? > > > > When you need to change the flow of the application (what page forwards > > to where) how do you make this change? > > > > How do you handle server side validation problems and display messages > > to the user about these server side problems? > > > > If you handled ANY of the above than I will GUARANTEE you that I can > > take your SAME application, and not change any of your business logic, > > and end up with code that is CLEANER and, most importantly from your > > perspective, written in LESS lines. > > > > I truly truly would love for you to zip up a sample of one of your web > > applications and let us check out this 'smaller' code base. Please do > > it. Pretty please. > > > > I'm sorry if I sound a bit hostile, but I've had this 'argument' with so > > many people over the years. They say stuff like "I don't see why use > > (insert your favorite web framework), you just complicate things and end > > up with more code and configuration files." Then what happens is I see > > their code and see all the wasted stuff they are doing that a web > > framework provides 'out of the box.' I think the problem is these people > > don't see how the framework saves time because they haven't worked with. > > > > Do these frameworks have problems? Yes, they do. I'm not a fan of > > ActionForms myself, but I do see their place in the Struts world. JSF > > seems to have gotten rid of them. Some frameworks the learning curve > > looks too steep for me to invest the time in it (Spring's UI framework > > seemed to be one of these back in the day when I first considered it... > > the docs sucked). Others out there seem good, but I'm just too > > comfortable with Struts to make the change. I can whip out a quality web > > app using Struts and iBATIS in practically no time at all. Granted, yes, > > Struts has a learning curve, but once you learn it you can apply it to > > any app or other apps that are coded with it. Conversely, if we take > > your "JSP+Javabean+taglibs only" application it will be much more > > difficult for a new person to the application to understand (again, you > > are all about saving money so I'm not sure how you can't see how your > > home-grown approach will cost you more in the long run). > > > > -- > > Rick > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > -- > "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." > ~Dakota Jack~ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack H. Xu Technology columnist and editor http://www.usanalyst.com http://www.getusjobs.com (The largest free job portal in North America) -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm