Is the current work in Kerby on preauth mechanism using JWT also
related? Can Kerberos auth then be used in OAuth2 flows?

Kind Regards,
Stefan

On 10/27/2015 07:00 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi Emmanuel, ok thanks for making sense of it!  Sounds like something else 
> wedges between ApacheDS and an outside REST api. What that is we don't know 
> yet :)
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emmanuel Lécharny [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 1:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Claims based authentication with ApacheDS
> 
> Le 27/10/15 16:16, [email protected] a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> We're starting to hear our customers ask for 'claims based authentication' 
>> with our product which back end with  ApacheDS.
>> I've researched it a bit and it's clearly beyond the goals of an LDAP server.
>> My question is, are any of you trying to implement something like this? If 
>> so, what is the stack you're using?
>> What are challenges, benefits, risks?
> 
> AFAIU what the 'Claims base authn' buzz is all about, it's nothing more than 
> some kind of Kerberos authn system, without the frightening complexity being 
> exposed. The schema you can find on 
> http://gunnarpeipman.com/2013/07/what-is-claims-based-authentication/ is 
> similar to teh one you have on http://www.funtoo.org/Kerberos_With_Funtoo, 
> with one big difference : in Kerberos, your application does noyt have to 
> check on the authentication broker if the token is valid or not.
> 
> In some way, it's a weaker protocol (weaker in a sense of the broker will not 
> only be pounded by clients requesting a token, but also by the application 
> itself that need to check the token). It makes the broker the real SPOF of 
> your system, when in Kerberos, at least, the ticket is valid for some period 
> of time - ie, even if the AS is down, you can continue to work.
> 
> But I can see where it all comes from : on the internet, and especially on 
> the cloud, ommunicating using a protocol like kerberos is certainly not 
> convenient : each application has to be known by the Kerberos AS.
> This is not convenient when talking to external services... (not even for 
> internal services !). I can imagine how easier it is to deploy a brand new 
> application, that only has to know where is the broker to check the incoming 
> tokens.
> 
> So, yes, basically, it's inferior to Kerberos, at least from a technical POV, 
> but it's most certainly easier to use, especially now that we can assume that 
> the broker are able to sustain an extremelly high number of incoming 
> requests, something that was not the case decades ago when Kerberos was 
> specified (yes, decades : 22 years ago actually ;-)
> 
> What's the possible relation with Apache DS ? Well, if you consider that 
> ApacheDS is capable of providing some Kerberos Authentication, there is no 
> reason it should not be able to become a broker. All in all, it's just about 
> being able to accept incoming requests and answer them.
> ApacheDS has been designed from the very beginning to be exactly that :
> a layer on top of which you implement your protocol (and we have successfully 
> implemented LDAP, Kerberos, DHCP, DNS, NTP...)
> 
> Now, the question is : how do we do that !
> 
> 
> 

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