Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

[MG]

PPS: I do not agree with you assessment of Kotlin: Apart from it being 
always statically typed (less flexible than Groovy, but sometimes just 
all one needs, and definitely easier for Java-only-developers to wrap 
their head around; also helps avoid the annoying "only a scripting 
language" tag), I find it to be 95% Groovy, with an added 5% of really 
weird/bad syntactic/semantic decisions (Javascript type declarartion 
syntax, which works well for a very weakly typed language only were you 
seldom use it, and the imho clumsy non-null-syntax semantics).
Implementation wise they have done some things which Groovy should do, 
but these are no-brainers, e.g. the semantics of inline closures, or 
that final variables with no explicit type are not of type Object, but 
of the type they were assigned, or named parameters support which does 
not try to force-map the problem to a (non type safe) map.

On 14.02.2018 12:23, Cédric Champeau wrote:

    Or for something with a bit more pep "Groovy Vanguard Developer /
    Contributor 2018" or "Groovy Crack 2018".

    Contrary to Java Champions, I would suggest tying it to a specific
    year:


I like the idea of having it associated with a year, but it doesn't 
have to. Explanation below.

    That way people who no longer are Groovy contributors do not carry
    the title forever (the Russian guy who is now working on Kotlin
    comes to mind)


His name is Alex Tkachman, and while he's not involved in the language 
anymore, he's still one of the biggest contributors to Groovy. Most of 
the performance improvements in the "legacy" (non indy) dynamic 
runtime of Groovy were from him and still active. He was also source 
of inspiration for the static compiler (Groovy++). I think he deserves 
the title more than lots of us. And I think we shouldn't go into the 
"he's gone to competition" route. Languages evolve, Kotlin is a very 
nice language, that took inspiration from us as well as others, and we 
have lots of things to learn from it too.

    , and on the other hand some people could get the title several
    years in a row, as a sign of continued gratitude.


If they do, they would be good candidates for the PMC.

    Cheers,
    mg



    On 13.02.2018 14:13, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
    +1 on the name!

    I think it's cool to differentiate the Groovy award from other
    awards like Java Rock-stars and Java Champions, Grails
    Rock-stars, and more!


    On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 14:09 Guillaume Laforge
    <glafo...@gmail.com <mailto:glafo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our
        previous conversations, and I must say I quite like it, and
        it makes sense considering our logo :-D

        On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Jennifer Strater
        <jenn.stra...@gmail.com <mailto:jenn.stra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

            +1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars"

            On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Paul King
            <pa...@asert.com.au <mailto:pa...@asert.com.au>> wrote:

                I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name!

                Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star
                Wars" - the long journey
                of programming language design vs the language wars! :-)


                On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM, Dierk König
                <dierk.koe...@canoo.com
                <mailto:dierk.koe...@canoo.com>> wrote:

                    I’m all for honoring contributions to the
                    language/ecosystem/community.
                    Given our logo, „Groovy Star“ comes to mind :-)

                    Cheers
                    Dierk

                    sent from:mobile

                    Am 13.02.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Paolo Di Tommaso
                    <paolo.ditomm...@gmail.com
                    <mailto:paolo.ditomm...@gmail.com>>:

                    It sound a nice idea also to promote the
                    visibility of the groovy community.


                    p

                    On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Søren Berg
                    Glasius <soe...@glasius.dk
                    <mailto:soe...@glasius.dk>> wrote:

                        I'm definitely +1

                        It is always important to recognize and
                        encourage the ones making a difference to
                        the community.

                        On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32 Schalk Cronjé
                        <ysb...@gmail.com <mailto:ysb...@gmail.com>>
                        wrote:


                            That's a +1 from me for the concep.


                            On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi everyone,
                            >
                            > A few of us have had various
                            discussions (in fact over many years)
                            > about having a recognition scheme
                            similar to Java Champions,
                            > perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or
                            "Apache Groovy Champions"
                            > or something else entirely if we think
                            of a better name.
                            >
                            > I think the idea has always been to
                            recognize contribution within the
                            > whole Groovy ecosystem not just the
                            Apache Groovy project. The many
                            > tens of projects within the ecosystem
                            are often where many ideas come
                            > from for the project's future
                            evolution and also where future contributors
                            > may arise. And in any case, Groovy has
                            always been about making
                            > coding productive and fun and we
                            should celebrate that widely!
                            >
                            > There are various questions to ask
                            like should such a scheme
                            > be formally coordinated by the
                            project/by Apache or should it be run as a
                            > community-driven unsanctioned activity
                            and if so what guidelines should
                            > be in place. Also, there are many
                            details like how will the scheme
                            > operate?
                            > How are new members elected? Is it a
                            lifetime recognition or is there
                            > an "emeritus" status? And so forth.
                            Java Champions vote themselves
                            > on new champions and the recognition
                            has a lifetime status for instance.
                            > if we progress this idea, we'd need to
                            make that all clear but that isn't
                            > the purpose of this email - we need to
                            first decide if we like the idea.
                            >
                            > Even if we like the idea, there are
                            still some hurdles to step through.
                            > We've already sought some informal
                            feedback from other parts of
                            > Apache and other projects within the
                            Groovy Ecosystem and we'll
                            > likely need further discussions. We
                            want something that embraces
                            > the whole community but fits in with
                            Apache project governance
                            > around trademarks/branding.
                            >
                            > So, the first question is: are we as a
                            project in favor of such a scheme?
                            >
                            > Cheers, Paul.


                            --
                            Schalk W. Cronjé
                            Twitter / Ello / Toeter : @ysb33r

                        -- 
                        Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
                        Søren Berg Glasius

                        Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
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        -- 
        Guillaume Laforge
        Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
        Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

        Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
        <http://glaforge.appspot.com/>
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    Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
    Søren Berg Glasius

    Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
    Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <tel:+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype:
    sbglasius
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