On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 14:09 +0300, Veli-Pekka Kestilä wrote: > On 10.7.2014 13:30, Balint Szigeti wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 2014-07-09 at 13:35 +0200, lee wrote: > > > > > David Benfell <benf...@parts-unknown.org> writes: > > > > > > > I guess the two questions I'm reaching for are: > > > > > > > > 1) Is systemd conceptually broken, just a really bad idea from the > > > > start? Some people say yes, and some of them argue well. > > > > > > So far, I've seen only arguments that would support that systemd is a > > > really bad idea because it's broken by design --- or should reasonably > > > be designed differently. > > > > > > > 2) Or, is it just that systemd is buried underneath an avalanche of > > > > horrendous documentation and poorly chosen terminology? > > > > > > You could look at the source to find an answer. Perhaps it's great --- > > > but I doubt it. > > > > Seriously? Looking the source? Except developers who will dig in the > > source code? > > None user will dig the source code, they just will leave the > > distribution or worse the all Linux area if > > they can't solve their problem. I think, if the user can't find > > solution, (s)he will accept it, but if there > > will be too many, they just escape. > > > Escape where, OSX has similar thing which seems to be even less > documented (only my impression might be wrong). > Solaris has moved something similar. AIX has never been truly SYSV > and needs special hardware. BSD's will work but > have their own set of fun and are geared in my experience more to > people who like to mess with the code. And some > of them are planning to move to the thing used in OSX (or in it's > opensource upstream). Windows also has extensive > ways to manage how processes will start in startup etc.
That's great. Because they don't have choice we can do everything with them. :( It looks like, a small group of the community makes decisions and the other people don't have choice. No alternatives.... :( > > > Maybe the thing is that world has moved forward and there is needs > which traditional sysv init doesn't answer > anymore. And any way you feel about systemd something similar would > have come anyway and it actually did and > people weren't happy so in came systemd instead. If there is real > problems with systemd I am sure someone will sooner > or later fork it and do different version. That's the choice in > free/open software it's freedom of making your own if the > current solution doesn't work for you. Nothing of this freedom is > taken away. > > It's just that those people who actually do work for getting the > distributions out have seen that systemd is only > maintained solution at the moment. I think it's somehow telling that > no one else is even trying to make better > solution to the problems. It doesn't mean there isn't ways to improve > systemd (or make a replacement), it just means no one is willing to > do it. > > -vpk >
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