If a bunch of ppl are giving me the same feedback. I would step back and have my ears wide open
-Dan We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak. Epictetus <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/epictetus.html> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Curtis Rueden <ctrue...@wisc.edu> wrote: > Hi Wayne, > > > I'm glad Greg was able to help you solve your problem. > > Greg's response was great. But in fairness, it was Bernd who actually > stated the solution to Michael's problem. It would be nice if this thread > could wrap up with Michael acknowledging that Bernd's fix actually does the > job. > > Regards, > Curtis > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Wayne Fay <wayne...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > If you disagree with almost everything I said, there's really no point > > in continuing to discuss it. The possibility of either of us being > > convinced to change our minds is vanishingly small. > > > > I'm glad Greg was able to help you solve your problem. > > > > Respectfully, > > Wayne > > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:17 PM, <michael.ctr.taru...@faa.gov> wrote: > > > Wayne, > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I think I disagree with almost everything > you > > said. > > > > > > First I did not attack anyone. Was my attitude bad, yes. Did it get > > worse when I felt like I was not getting the explanation I needed, most > > assuredly. I called no one a name, nor insulted anyone's intelligence, > and > > when I came close to it I apologized. That's more than I got from > several > > of the responders. Just check the thread, its all there. > > > > > > Second, are you implying that you only support people that are happy > > with the product? It sounds to me that you are on the defensive already > > and as soon as you get someone that is frustrated or displeased. Like > it > > is somehow their fault. > > > > > > Third, how do you know how much time I've invested in trying to learn > > Maven? How much is enough before I can have this "intelligent" Maven > > dialog with the Maven community? Users don't want to ask people for help > > (i.e. at least I like to try and figure things out for myself), but there > > comes a time when you are just plain stuck. Maybe its because of a > mental > > block and maybe something you've read and researched just does not make > any > > sense. Yes I understand that there are some people that probably post > > questions without having made an effort to learn anything. How do you > > determine that? How do you differentiate someone who has made an effort > > from someone who is just trying to get an easy answer? > > > > > > With respect to vocabulary and the lingua franca, does "bogus" fit in > > that category. > > > > > > Your comment about the Maven 4.0.0 POM model is particularly > > frustrating. When you told me to do the research on the original > version I > > did exactly as you instructed. That is how I determined that it was > > 2.2.1. I'm sorry but I think the POM model version question is valid. > In > > your original reply you did not know the time frame. I replied to you > that > > it goes back at least five years. You did not respond. So while I was > > doing the research on the version and I found out it was 2.2.1 I thought > > the POM model version could be a problem. To tell me now after the fact > > that I should not have been concerned would mean that I would either have > > to assume that you know that or I would have to be a mind reader. > > > > > > And finally I demanded nothing from anyone. I asked if two of the > > repliers were contributors, and I reiterated a basic question I asked > from > > the beginning, several times. > > > > > > Yes I am partly to blame here. But many of the Maven User List > > responders have a little dirt on their hands too. I don't see any of you > > acknowledging that. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mike > > > > > > Michael Tarullo > > > Contractor (Engility Corp) > > > Enterprise Architect > > > NSRR System Administrator > > > FAA WJH Technical Center > > > (609)485-5294 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Wayne Fay [mailto:wayne...@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 12:30 PM > > > To: Maven Users List > > > Subject: Re: Copy-dependencies goal error > > > > > > Maven is a rather complex piece of software. Many problems cannot be > > simply distilled to "here's your simple problem, and here's your simple > > solution." I understand this is what you want, but it is rarely that > > simple. And attacking the people on this list who are trying to help you > > when you are frustrated with the type of support they are providing is a > > really bad approach to problem solving. Also recognize that many people > on > > this list are not US-born native English speakers, so there is sometimes > a > > language barrier even when we are all writing English. > > > > > > By using a free product, you (and your employer) should recognize that > > you are trading off dollar costs for other costs - including your own > time. > > Please don't complain about people asking you to do something very simple > > like install a couple other versions to see if that fixes your build > issue. > > It doesn't sound like you went back and tried 2.2.1 as I originally > > recommended - simply to get more information about what happened, > certainly > > not intending to guarantee that would fix your issue. I'd be curious > about > > the error message you say that you got in 3.0.5. > > > > > > (Also, as a side-note, the POM model has been 4.0.0 for a long time - > if > > I was worried about that, I would have mentioned it. This is where "not > > really knowing the product at all, and not wanting to" becomes a problem, > > you are making bad assumptions.) > > > > > > And yes, the users of this list generally expect people to have some > > passing familiarity with the product and the lingua franca that is > > utilized. There are several free resources online to help you "get up to > > speed" in the form of user's manuals etc. Your response here will most > > likely be "but I don't want to learn Maven, I just need to use it for > this > > quick thing in my job so just help me with that" and the collective > answer > > here will be "but Maven is complex, there are so many variables, > providing > > simple solutions to problems is even tougher when the user lacks the > > standard foundational knowledge that is typical." > > > > > > It is fine that you only use Maven for your job and thus don't want to > > learn much - just get your issue fixed. Please understand that our > > collective tolerance for such users, when they have the wrong attitude as > > you have demonstrated in this thread, is pretty low. Especially when you > > say this is part of a COTS software which means that vendor is "passing > the > > buck" for support to this list when they themselves should provide you > more > > support which you are paying for. In the ideal scenario, you open a > ticket > > to that vendor, they have an internal person who is good with Maven who > > provides you with support, and only if they cannot solve the problem > would > > they come to this list for support on your behalf. > > > > > > You should not be unhappy with the users of this list. You should > direct > > that anger to the COTS vendor who is failing to provide you with support > > for a product that you have paid for! If your emails to this list > > demonstrates how angry you get when you haven't paid for something and > > don't get what you expect, I don't want to be around when we throw > > substantial real dollars into the mix - I anticipate a stream of > > obscenity-laced emails flying in every direction. > > > > > > Demanding short & simple responses to all inquiries such as yours will > > result in little traffic on this list as there is rarely a short & simple > > response to most of the questions. And yes, demanding is the only word > > which is appropriate in the context of this thread. > > > > > > We're happy to (try to) support you here, but I'd suggest that you > adopt > > a somewhat different approach & attitude first. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Wayne > > > Apache Maven PMC Member > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 4:42 PM, <michael.ctr.taru...@faa.gov> wrote: > > >> Here is why I care: > > >> > > >> Well I'm not a Maven contributor. I don't wish to be. I don't even > > want to use the product, and wouldn't if I wasn't required to for my job. > > >> > > >> So I get the impression that certain people answer questions because > > they are contributors and answer the question as if everyone else is a > > contributor and is expected to know the product as such. > > >> > > >> You folks in the open source arena have a lot to learn. Your reply > > that you "fixed my stupid pom" is one of those things. Good customer > > support would go something like this..... > > >> > > >> The problem you are having is because...... <provide an explanation > > >> here that someone who is not a contributor or even an intermediate or > > >> advanced user can understand> > > >> > > >> Here is what you need to do to fix that problem..... <provide the fix > > >> and explain why this fix is needed in this case> > > >> > > >> You have done nothing to educate the user and to make them more > > self-sufficient. > > >> > > >> Michael Tarullo > > >> Contractor (Engility Corp) > > >> Enterprise Architect > > >> NSRR System Administrator > > >> FAA WJH Technical Center > > >> (609)485-5294 > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Bernd Eckenfels [mailto:e...@zusammenkunft.net] > > >> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 5:12 PM > > >> To: users@maven.apache.org > > >> Subject: Re: Copy-dependencies goal error > > >> > > >> Am Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:08:02 +0000 > > >> schrieb <michael.ctr.taru...@faa.gov>: > > >>> Answer a simple question for me, are you a Maven contributor? > > >> > > >> I fixed your stupid pom, so why would you care? > > >> > > >> Gruss > > >> Bernd > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > >
