I’m not sure why everyone hates ant so much. I know it’s not perfect but what build tool really is.
If the preference is not to use ant in the future...when is Netbeans going to formally change from ant to maven? I know some work has been done in the branches which assume may have involved some tools to do some of the conversions so could whatever was use be used to automate the batch conversion? For reference on converting (1) (2) (3) (4) (1) https://blog.idrsolutions.com/2016/01/convert-ant-based-netbeans-project-to-a-maven-project/ (2) https://blog.sonatype.com/2009/04/how-to-convert-from-ant-to-maven-in-5-minutes/?hs_amp=true (3) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4029501/how-to-convert-ant-project-to-maven-project (4) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4029501/how-to-convert-ant-project-to-maven-project Eric Bresie ebre...@gmail.com (mailto:ebre...@gmail.com) > On April 20, 2021 at 7:24:39 PM CDT, Emilio Gallardo Cantella > <rareit...@gmail.com (mailto:rareit...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > To be honest, I think removing new projects in Ant might be too drastic a > change altogether. From my perspective, a good lot of people that might still > be using old Netbeans and the straightforward Ant support might not even know > Ant IS an actual thing in the IDE, more so that their projects just work. I > spent a few years doing Java and C/C++ projects on Netbeans for uni, and > never had to nor was encouraged to touch the build system (Ant, make, cmake). > You could argue that it might be a deficiency of the curriculum, but in terms > of function it is not a requirement for learning a language or practicing it. > > > > Maven and Gradle are nice, but they require additional steps to work right > now, and are not as straightforward, which most users and specially novices > would find friendlier. The actual closest to get-up-and-go is Gradle, not > Maven at all, from both a completely clean install or build of Netbeans - and > I have tested it multiple times. > > > What I would suggest is grabbing the whole set Ant-based functions, projects > and modules and disable them by default, but introduce a way for users, and a > prompt for example, to allow them to activate that set of projects from > within the New Project Dialog. As an example, instead of the "Java with Ant" > category, maybe there could be a "Legacy" folder icon that when selected > displays in the "Projects" subwindow a prompt to activate Java with Ant, > along with a small blurb about that having been the old standard for > projects. Moreover, to make it more friendly, the blurb could say something > like "if you cannot open/Netbeans does not recognize your old Projects, > activate this and see if it works" > > > I know this might be a bit beyond the topic of this thread, but this seems > something a bit too drastic to do piecemeal such as disabling new projects > for Ant at all > > > Thanks, > > > Emilio G.C. > > > > On 4/20/2021 17:28, Sean Carrick wrote: > > > > GJ, > > > > > > My apologies! It seems I kicked off more than I expected with my comments. > > Feel free to slap me if you ever see me... > > > > > > -SC > > > > > > On 4/20/21 2:33 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > > > No one is suggesting removing support for Ant altogether. > > > > > > The suggestion is to remove the possibility of creating new Ant projects. > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 21:32 (x-apple-data-detectors://6), Thomas Wolf > > > <tjw...@gmail.com (mailto:tjw...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > +1 for not removing ant support for me as well. I’m admittedly an > > > > old-timer. My first exposure to a ‘modern’ build tool was on my last > > > > job - the company used gradle. With a background in make and ant, I > > > > found its syntax hard to grok. NB devs clearly like Maven - its syntax > > > > seems straight-forward enough, but the tool seems relatively slow and > > > > if you have an existing ant-based project whose directory structure > > > > doesn’t match maven’s desired one, moving to maven may not be as > > > > straight forward as some suggest. And, how is the uptake of Ivy? Isn’t > > > > that (in combination with ant) considered a modern build tool? If NB > > > > removes support for ant altogether, it would not be able to handle > > > > ivy-based projects, no? > > > > > > > > tom > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2021 at 3:10:04 PM, Marco Rossi <ma...@markreds.it > > > > (mailto:ma...@markreds.it)> wrote: > > > > > +1 also for me to not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) > > > > > projects. > > > > > > > > > > Mark Reds > > > > > > > > > > > Il giorno 20 apr 2021, alle ore 20:08 > > > > > > (x-apple-data-detectors://11), Mitch Claborn <mitch...@claborn.net > > > > > > (mailto:mitch...@claborn.net)> ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects. > > > > > > We've been using Ant for a long time, and it still works just fine > > > > > > for us, so there is no payback in converting to Maven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/20/21 12:10 PM, Lisa Ruby wrote: > > > > > > > For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may seem > > > > > > > simple and straightforward, but for those of us who haven't it's > > > > > > > not. I've struggled to try and understand it and figure out how > > > > > > > to use it for my software project and gave up. And it's a huge > > > > > > > amount of overhead, extra disk space usage, and more bits and > > > > > > > pieces to keep track of that isn't justifiable for small simple > > > > > > > projects. ANT works just fine for me, and I will keep using it > > > > > > > for as long as I possibly can. I need to focus my time on getting > > > > > > > my software out, not on the tools I have to use to do it. > > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > On 4/20/2021 10:00 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > > > > > > >> I agree, the Ant-based project creation should be removed and I > > > > > > >> disagree that there should be any kind of conversion between Ant > > > > > > >> and Maven -- that simply will never work and we'll spend the > > > > > > >> rest of our days fixing bugs in that. To convert from Ant to > > > > > > >> Maven: create a new Maven project and copy the Java source files > > > > > > >> from your Ant project into it. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Gj > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 6:58 PM <pszud...@throwarock.com > > > > > > >> (mailto:pszud...@throwarock.com) > > > > > > >> <mailto:pszud...@throwarock.com>> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Honestly, I think NB should have an internal conversation about > > > > > > >> removing the "new project" support for Ant projects, while still > > > > > > >> being able to open existing ones. It just confuses a lot of > > > > > > >> people > > > > > > >> if they're not going to be supported. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I agree, if and ONLY if you provide at least a rudimentary way to > > > > > > >> convert ANT projects to Maven projects. I have been struggling > > > > > > >> with this issue too long. I have hundreds of Ant based projects > > > > > > >> that I would love to turn over immediately to Maven... but I > > > > > > >> can't > > > > > > >> , am struggling, and haven't coded a darn line in two months... I > > > > > > >> used to code 10 hours a day ... and now... embarrassed by my > > > > > > >> inability to convert.,. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I exaggerate a bit, I still code in "Old" Netbeans 8.2, but I > > > > > > >> know > > > > > > >> the days are numbered... > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On 2021-04-20 08:23, Will Hartung wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 12:55 AM Wayne Gemmell | Connect > > > > > > >>> <wa...@connect-mobile.co.za (mailto:wa...@connect-mobile.co.za) > > > > > > >>> <mailto:wa...@connect-mobile.co.za>> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Is the perception that nobody does Maven EAR's anymore or > > > > > > >>> that nobody uses EARs? I have a web app that has given me no > > > > > > >>> shortage of issuse with ant. > > > > > > >>> I'm trying to move it to Maven. If nobody is using maven then > > > > > > >>> I need to move to something else. If nobody is using EAR's > > > > > > >>> anymore then I'm pretty stuck figuring out this Maven issue. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Well, it's several things. > > > > > > >>> EARs are less popular because their necessity has been greatly > > > > > > >>> reduced. Session beans can be placed in WARs now, so for many > > > > > > >>> use > > > > > > >>> cases, a WAR is completely adequate to the task. > > > > > > >>> However, it's not suitable for all use cases. > > > > > > >>> Notably, MDBs can not be deployed in WARs. But only as an EJB > > > > > > >>> either deployed standalone, or bundled within an EAR. > > > > > > >>> With the hue and cry over micro services and "down with the > > > > > > >>> monolith", just the idea of a large application bundled in a EAR > > > > > > >>> is falling out of favor. > > > > > > >>> Also, there's a history of advocacy underlying this. Sun used > > > > > > >>> NetBeans as a mechanism to advocate for Java and Java EE. It > > > > > > >>> behooved them to have something like NetBeans to make Java EE > > > > > > >>> development easier. So, it was important for NetBeans to have > > > > > > >>> really first class Java EE support. Bundling the Java EE wizards > > > > > > >>> and templates along with Glassfish all helped promote that. > > > > > > >>> Of course, now, with the great Java Diaspora out of Oracle, the > > > > > > >>> goals and drivers are different. > > > > > > >>> For your project, if all you have is a web app and some session > > > > > > >>> beans, then a simple WAR file is good to go. The Ant projects > > > > > > >>> seem to essentially be deprecated now, so I would not rely on > > > > > > >>> those for anything. If practical, especially if your project is > > > > > > >>> young, I would migrate it to Maven. The Maven WAR is a pretty > > > > > > >>> simple project and seems to work ok. Maven isn't going away any > > > > > > >>> time soon, Gradle, it's primary competitor, doesn't really have > > > > > > >>> the traction to overcome it yet, and it's been going for some > > > > > > >>> time. If nothing else, the pom.xml file has become a de facto > > > > > > >>> portable project format if, for nothing else, to capture > > > > > > >>> dependencies. > > > > > > >>> Honestly, I think NB should have an internal conversation about > > > > > > >>> removing the "new project" support for Ant projects, while still > > > > > > >>> being able to open existing ones. It just confuses a lot of > > > > > > >>> people if they're not going to be supported. > > > > > > >>> And I still haven't heard any concrete position the project has > > > > > > >>> on internalizing Maven archetypes used for project wizards, or > > > > > > >>> the process of adopting that. > > > > > > >>> Legacy archetypes that used to work in NB 8 are now failing > > > > > > >>> because they've vanished from Maven central. So, an external > > > > > > >>> dependency broke an internal feature. > > > > > > >>> Feel free to follow up with specific questions about getting > > > > > > >>> your > > > > > > >>> project to work and/or converted to Maven. > > > > > > >>> Regards, > > > > > > >>> Will Hartung > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > > > > > > (mailto:users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > > > > > (mailto:users-h...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > > > > > (mailto:users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > > > > (mailto:users-h...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > >
