In a message dated 2009.09.19 04:31 -0500, Harold Fuchs wrote:
When a picture is imported into a document, it has no "frame" unless one is
explicitly created for that purpose - but when a caption is added to the
picture, a frame is also added. However, that frame can be deleted without
deleting the picture and caption
How exactly, please?
By selecting the frame and pressing Delete - which sounds too obvious,
but that's all it took. This was a few weeks back, when I was trying to
edit captions, and had trouble to get the hang of separately selecting
picture, caption or frame. [You may recall that you, Brian and Michael
Reich patiently talked me through it. I may be a slow learner, but this
list is wonderful compensation.] I finally got back to that problem.
However, having said that... I can't reproduce the process of deleting
the frame while retaining the picture and caption. A days ago, it just
happened while I was playing with picture/caption/frame, trying to
familiarize myself with all of the parameters, and I decided to see what
would happen if I tried deleting the frame around one of the pictures in
my test document. At that point the frame was deleted, with no apparent
change to picture/caption relationship.
Now, however, I find that deleting a frame (around a different
picture+caption) deletes everything inside the frame as well. [One of my
biggest frustrations with OO has been a sometime lack of repeatability -
no doubt because I do not see subtle differences in underlying
conditions - that retards my uptake.] I will keep working at it and
report back when I can do it again, repeatably. Meanwhile, I have a
document with 21 pictures, most with frames around them, and one with a
caption but no frame; for reference, I will save that document as-is
while I try to reproduce the effect.
- meaning that the caption is, as one might expect, a property of the
picture (not of the frame). In fact, there is *no* apparent consequence
from deleting the frame. So what is the philosophical and practical
significance of adding the frame in the first place, and what is lost when
the frame is lost?
If you remove the frame but leave the caption and picture, what happens
exactly when you move the picture? Does the caption text go with it or are
they now separate objects?
Good questions! Initially the caption remains with the picture, but it
does appear that I can move the picture independently of the caption -
which answer my question about the role of the frame: It is OO's way of
keeping picture and caption together in a fixed spatial relationship.
Thanks for pointing that out.
What happens to the caption when you wrap text around the picture? What
happens if you do that without having first removed the frame?
Again, great questions that go to the heart of the frame function. To
answer your question: the frameless picture, when scaled down, sees its
caption go creeping up from the bottom to its left side (a function of
how I set up the wrapping for your test). Again, I see the difference
without a frame.
Thanks for asking the right questions to lead to answers to /my/
questions. Now I will have to continue trying to delete frames while
leaving picture+caption, - not just to answer your question "How
exactly," but because I think it would provide some more insight into
the implementation of frames. Thanks again,
John
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