----- Original Message ----- > From: "Einav Cohen" <eco...@redhat.com> > To: "Eldan Hildesheim" <ehild...@redhat.com> > Cc: "info" <i...@eldanet.com>, "users" <users@ovirt.org>, j...@cs.yorku.ca, > "Malini Rao" <m...@redhat.com>, "Lior > Vernia" <lver...@redhat.com>, "Karli Sjöberg" <karli.sjob...@slu.se>, "René > Koch (ovido)" <r.k...@ovido.at> > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:48:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability > [ux][BZ#984737] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eldan Hildesheim" <ehild...@redhat.com> > > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:41:55 AM > > > > Hi, > > The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the > > "purpose > > network icon" (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should > > understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should > > interfere > > the understanding of this purpose. > > 1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be > > static - it should be shown only in rollover: > > It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and > > not having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line > > in the grid as well). > > again - reminding the original subject of my thread / original pain-point > mentioned > in the description of BZ#984737: the user had a hard time finding the edit > icon in > the first place. Replacing a tiny pencil icon with a tiny gear icon (but > still > displaying it only upon hover) kind-of misses the entire point IMO. > a static indication will be helpful in this case. > > [users: it this is NOT a real pain point - please let us know] > > Moreover, the fact that the area on the right-hand side of the > network-rectangle > was made originally only for read-only "purpose" icons is OK, but it doesn't > mean > that we cannot change that. Alissa made a point about removing the rectangles > around > the "purpose" icons (see attached) with which I agree - it will make them > look less > like "buttons" and more like read-only icons. > if we will graphically distinguish the gear icon (e.g. separator, border, > etc.) so > that it wouldn't be mistakenly considered as another "purpose" icon, but as a > button, > we wouldn't a problem.
MR: I agree that removing the boxes around the read only informational labels will help in distinguishing an action from a label and the separator is also a great idea. I understand Eldan's thinking in terms of revealing the Actions on rollover but I think given that this is a dense graphic screen with lots of visual elements, users may be finding it hard to detect a tiny addition in the form of a icon. For this reason, I suggested this to be static. > > > 2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box > > and > > you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP. > > Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together. > > was there a sketch that you intended to attach? or did you refer to one of > the > attachments in one of the previous e-mails in the thread? > > > But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can > > eliminated the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover) > > I assume that you mean that gear + arrow will appear upon rollover, not that > gear + arrow will always be displayed and the actual available actions (edit, > remove) will appear upon hover (which is what I suggested). > Which means that in your suggestion - actual available actions (edit, remove) > will appear only upon mouse-click (which means that in order to edit a > network, > two clicks will be required, instead of one today / my suggestion)? > > > Eldan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Einav Cohen" <eco...@redhat.com> > > To: "users" <users@ovirt.org> > > Cc: "Lior Vernia" <lver...@redhat.com>, "info" <i...@eldanet.com>, "Eldan > > Hildesheim" <ehild...@redhat.com>, j...@cs.yorku.ca, "Karli Sjöberg" > > <karli.sjob...@slu.se>, "René Koch (ovido)" <r.k...@ovido.at>, "Malini Rao" > > <m...@redhat.com> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability > > [ux][BZ#984737] > > > > [top posting] > > > > Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated! > > I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so > > far, towards converging to a concrete solution. > > > > your feedback will be highly appreciated. > > > > (1) [open issue] actions availability indication: > > > > (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached > > HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png) > > (b) visible only upon hover (see attached > > HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png) > > (c) combination (see attached > > SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png) > > > > [ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains / > > doesn't > > contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon > > hover / > > upon click, etc.] > > > > I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy; > > (a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the > > original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully > > resolved in solution (b). > > according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the > > people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they > > support > > (a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am]. > > > > (2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical > > network > > is needed / not needed. > > we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like > > to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in > > mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I > > assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortable > > with getting rid of all of these? > > > > (3) [open issue] actions availability upon click vs. upon hover. > > [note: this is not about the indication mentioned in (1) (e.g. gear icon), > > but about actually showing the available actions (edit, remove, etc.). > > revealing the available actions upon click would mean that two clicks will > > be needed in order to edit a logical network, for example, vs. one click > > that will be needed in the current state / hover solution. > > moreover, if everyone are comfortable with removing the details-pop-up upon > > hover (see (2)), then there would be no hover conflicts in that sense. > > [even if we decide to keep the details-pop-up - we can include the actions > > in it, just like demonstrated in HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png, so there > > will be only one consistent "behavior" upon hovering on the logical network > > area] > > > > my suggestion: > > > > add a static action indication (e.g. gear icon), and upon hovering on it > > (or hovering on the logical network rectangle in general), the actions-pop > > -up (which may or may not contain also some network details - again, see > > (2)) > > will appear [see attached HostSetupNetworks-EinavSuggestion.png] > > > > * NOTE: Although we are discussing mainly logical networks, the solution > > (or > > the relevant parts of it) should be applied also to Bonds and NICs within > > the same dialog. > > > > "+1"s / "-1"s / comments / additional suggestions are welcome. > > > > ---- > > Thanks, > > Einav > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Karli Sjöberg" <karli.sjob...@slu.se> > > > To: "Lior Vernia" <lver...@redhat.com> > > > Cc: "Einav Cohen" <eco...@redhat.com>, "info" <i...@eldanet.com>, "Eldan > > > Hildesheim" <ehild...@redhat.com>, > > > j...@cs.yorku.ca, "users" <users@ovirt.org> > > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:46:52 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability > > > [ux][BZ#984737] > > > > > > fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote: > > > > tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia: > > > >> > > > >> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote: > > > >> > Hi, > > > >> > > > > >> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the > > > >> > edit-action in > > > >> > the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 - > > > >> > usability: > > > >> > webadmin > > > >> > difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla. > > > >> > We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached > > > >> > "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png") > > > >> > which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by > > > >> > the > > > >> > reporter > > > >> > (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described > > > >> > in > > > >> > the BZ was > > > >> > the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the > > > >> > connection > > > >> > properties > > > >> > since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the > > > >> > correct place, > > > >> > in order to find that option. > > > >> > So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this > > > >> > solution is not > > > >> > enough (comment #5). > > > >> > > > > >> > Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions" > > > >> > drop-down menu in > > > >> > the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached > > > >> > "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png". > > > >> > This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about > > > >> > another concern > > > >> > with this solution: > > > >> > would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon > > > >> > click or upon > > > >> > hover? > > > >> > > > > >> > if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be > > > >> > somewhat > > > >> > confusing > > > >> > with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network > > > >> > details > > > >> > pop-up. > > > >> > > > >> If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both > > > >> proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details > > > >> tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU, > > > > > > > > Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo > > > > Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you > > > > are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s). > > > > > > And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context? > > > It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my > > > understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host. > > > > > > > > > No I agree, it´s not helpful at all, maybe even destructive. Why allow > > > admins > > > to mess around with different MTU's on different Hosts for the same > > > network. > > > Since MTU is set in the switches, the MTU must be the same for all Hosts > > > on > > > the same network, or one could wreak all kinds of havoc. What I was > > > saying > > > is not to forget that, for admins, MTU is a big deal, and makes a big > > > difference in performance, is all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at > > > guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the > > > MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that > > > would be easy to figure out anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > /Karli > > > > > > > >> and the rest is just > > > >> explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful. > > > >> > > > >> > if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical > > > >> > network, two > > > >> > clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as > > > >> > opposed > > > >> > to one click > > > >> > in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion. > > > >> > maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is > > > >> > acceptable, however > > > >> > there may be some solutions for that: > > > >> > > > > >> > one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions, > > > >> > i.e. the actions > > > >> > within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu, > > > >> > however > > > >> > it means that > > > >> > there will be some redundancy of the actions availability. > > > >> > > > >> That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives. > > > >> > > > >> > another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon > > > >> > (or > > > >> > maybe only > > > >> > the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just > > > >> > in > > > >> > order to indicate > > > >> > that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's > > > >> > pop-up appear when > > > >> > hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area, > > > >> > as > > > >> > happens today with > > > >> > the current details pop-up) > > > >> > > > > >> > thoughts? > > > >> > > > >> I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable. > > > >> However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to > > > >> keep > > > >> a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on > > > >> the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side; > > > >> I'm > > > >> no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons. > > > >> > > > >> It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action > > > >> bar) > > > >> and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended, > > > >> Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person > > > >> or > > > >> most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > ---- > > > >> > Regards, > > > >> > Einav > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Users mailing list > > > >> Users@ovirt.org<mailto:Users@ovirt.org> <mailto:Users@ovirt.org> > > > >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Med Vänliga Hälsningar > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Karli Sjöberg > > > > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences > > > > Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8) > > > > S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden > > > > Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66 > > > > karli.sjob...@slu.se<mailto:karli.sjob...@slu.se> > > > > <mailto:karli.sjob...@adm.slu.se> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Med Vänliga Hälsningar > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Karli Sjöberg > > > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences > > > Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8) > > > S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden > > > Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66 > > > karli.sjob...@slu.se<mailto:karli.sjob...@adm.slu.se> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Users mailing list > > Users@ovirt.org > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users