On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Cristiano Costantini <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Claus, hi all, > > anytime I hear of a "dying" project I get worried, especially if like that > one. >
All projects will eventually die. New projects come and go etc. Apache has its share of dying projects too. Though the projects usually have to be dead for years before they go to the attic etc. > But apart ServiceMix Bundles and the precious work continuously being done > by Jean-Baptiste, you are right and I exactly asked this question to > investigate the orientation and understand the feeling of other people on > the community. > Yeah well as said before the main work is happening at Karaf / Camel etc. In fact Karaf was the ServiceMix Kernel, which was pulled out as a separate project to allow re-use for others to build containers. That was a great move, and Karaf has proven itself as a great independent project. > I take the opportunity then say my opinion: "ServiceMix" name has its > "marketing" value and I think it is wrong to let it die. > People trust the name "ServiceMix", don't trust a standalone project on > Github with poor description and documentation. > Well I dont agree entirely. ServiceMix has certainly poor documentation, and never updated, and never maintained. The web site is never updated, and new releases is not coming out. Nobody present ServiceMix at conferences, an publishers are not publishing books on ServieMix etc. For some people ServiceMix is *JBI* as that is how it got started. As a JBI implementation. Also ServiceMix is associated with ESB which in todays modern world lost its traction. In total the ServiceMix brand is not up to par anymore. Though the name is good for googling as you don't get animals in your search results ;) > Probably more and more people simply have the same need as me, and if it is > so, then why not to release the next version of it (Major version 5.0.0) as > more lightweight project, with only Camel, CXF and ActiveMQ (maybe like the > link posted by Mike)? Apache is an open community. So get INVOLVED. Help the dying project. Improve its documentation, spread the word. Help cut new releases etc. Apache is volunteer based and relies on people helping out. FuseSource used to do Fuse ESB product which was based on Apache ServiceMix. That product is no longer, and its evolved into JBoss Fuse as the commercial product. The only pieces that are used at the ServiceMIx OSGi bundles that Karaf/Camel users need. And the legacy JBI module that is @deprecated and to be removed in the future. fabric8 as the 100% free ASL2 community project with community releases etc. It may be the same for other companies. I cannot speak on their behalf. > I believe continuing releasing a "ServiceMix" distribution, is good in the > sense that it encourage the adoption of the platform by starters, and it > will be easier to maintain it with less dependencies. > NMR and JBI should split from the main project and either become plugins or > a separate karaf distribution, anyway with its own independent releases and > versions. > > Philosophically, it is not bad at all to remove something if its value has > decreased, and remember that "less is more" => > http://books.google.it/books?hl=it&id=gJrmszNHQV4C&q=less+is+more#v=onepage&q=%22Less%20is%20more.%20(Browning)%22&f=false > > What do you think? > Yeah famous word. But ServiceMix has not evolved in many many years, and bring hardly any value over either a pure Karaf + pick what you need distro. Or .. vs something as elaborate as fabric8 which is a modern integration platform that is cloud ready. > Finally I've taken a quick look at fabric8 but honestly I've not understood > how does it relate to ServiceMix: I can basically summarize my needs as the > need a platform to run karaf/servicemix the demos you can find on my github > repositories: https://github.com/cristcost?tab=repositories > But I trust you and I'll take a more accurate look to it to better > understand. Thank you for the link. > Fabric8 is based on Karaf, so its really a Karaf container in the lower layer, and then the fabric layer on top. You do not need to use fabric if you dont need too. You start fabric8 the same way as Karaf, eg such as =============================== davsclaus:/opt/fabric8-karaf-1.0.0-SNAPSHOT$ bin/karaf Please wait while Fabric8 is loading... 100% [========================================================================] ______ _ _ _____ | ___| | | (_) | _ | | |_ __ _| |__ _ __ _ ___ \ V / | _/ _` | '_ \| '__| |/ __|/ _ \ | || (_| | |_) | | | | (__| |_| | \_| \__,_|_.__/|_| |_|\___\_____/ Fabric8 Container (1.0.0-SNAPSHOT) http://fabric8.io/ Type 'help' to get started and 'help [cmd]' for help on a specific command. Hit '<ctrl-d>' or 'osgi:shutdown' to shutdown this container. Open a browser to http://localhost:8181 to access the management console Create a new Fabric via 'fabric:create' or join an existing Fabric via 'fabric:join [someUrls]' Fabric8:karaf@root> =============================== Notice that the prompt says "karaf@root". The shell in there is just karaf. PS: There is also bin/fusefabric (which is to be renamed to bin/fabric8). But Karaf is a great and active maintained project. So then Karaf is likely what your need. Everyone loves that project. But when you need have clustered Camel applications, go to the cloud or have many nodes to manage, or want to use docker, or want to more easily setup HA reliable brokers, then ServiceMix/Karaf fall short. Or when you want to use a web console that can manage all these projects from the same UI, then fabric8 offers that with hawtio - though you can just install hawtio as well in Karaf. .. at that point you may have to look elsewhere. 1) one option is fabric8 - with all that above, and more to come. 2) Karaf has the Cellar sub-project, so that may be something to look into as well. Also mind that Karaf and ServiceMix is heavy OSGi dependent. Not everyone need that, or companies have the time to train their developers to this new world. They just want to develop integration applications. Their options today is to not use SerivceMix but containers like Tomcat / Jetty / JEE servers etc. What fabirc8 is adding to the table later this year, is that it will portable runtime layer, which allows to run fabric on Tomcat / JBoss WildFly / Jetty / Karaf etc. And you can mix and match. Anyway users who have needs for ServiceMix. Then its your time to get involved and help this *dying* project, so its no longer dying. > Cristiano > > > > > 2014-02-08 8:42 GMT+01:00 Claus Ibsen <[email protected]>: > >> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Cristiano Costantini >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > as I'm waiting for Servicemix 4.6.0 to come out because it solves some >> > problems with the version of some bundles, I was wondering if I should >> move >> > to Karaf (2.3.3) instead on using Servicemix as the basis for my >> > application. >> > >> > In fact I use Spring, Pax Web, Camel and CXF, and I'll probably need >> > ActiveMQ if I need to implement some specific EIP. I need many >> dependencies >> > from the servicemix bundles of wrapped dependencies, but I don't other >> > ServiceMix features, especially NMR that I understand from SMX4NMR-319 is >> > blocking release of 4.6.0. >> > >> > What you suggest me to do? >> > >> > Thank you! >> > Cristiano >> >> ServiceMix is a much less active project today than it used to be. >> Also most of the work that used to be at SerivceMix is now happening >> at Karaf and Camel instead. >> >> Users looking for a single download installation can still find value >> in ServiceMix. But its a bit concerning that the project does not do >> releases so often. >> >> >> In my mind ServiceMix is a dying project, and users should take that >> into account. >> >> I would point people 2 main ways. >> >> 1) >> Karaf and then install what they need such as Camel / CXF etc. >> Then you can build your own ServiceMix. >> >> 2) >> fabric8 which is has a lot more to offer. >> http://fabric8.io/ >> >> certainly for the new era of cloud and managing a lot of containers, >> and having a consistent web user interface using hawtio, and much >> more. >> >> .. and besides fabric8 you may find value in Apache Karaf Cellar, and >> possible other 3rd party projects. >> >> >> >> -- >> Claus Ibsen >> ----------------- >> Red Hat, Inc. >> Email: [email protected] >> Twitter: davsclaus >> Blog: http://davsclaus.com >> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen >> Make your Camel applications look hawt, try: http://hawt.io >> -- Claus Ibsen ----------------- Red Hat, Inc. Email: [email protected] Twitter: davsclaus Blog: http://davsclaus.com Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen Make your Camel applications look hawt, try: http://hawt.io
