Louis Jourdan writes: > > At 15:02 -0600 12/07/2002, Jim Elwell wrote: >>> >...Europeans are hardly the only people using or promoting the >>>metric system, >>> >and hardly deserve sole credit for its spread. > > Well... The spread of the metric system started with the preparation > of the Metre Convention.... The result was the > Treaty of Metre, enthusiastically signed in 1875 by 17 countries > (including the USA!). Does that not deserve some credit to Europeans?
I apologize if my wording implied that Europeans deserve no credit. As you aptly describe, Europe has played a major role in development and spread of the metric system. My objection was to Madan's implication that "metrication" and "Europeanization" are synonymous (my words, not his). Allow me to point out that I said that Europeans "hardly deserve **sole** credit" rather than "any" credit. >>> >And if you consider "environment[al] consciousness" to mean >>> >"believing the >>>>Litany of the environmental crisis hysterics regardless of scientific >>>>merit," then I will grant you that Europe leads the world in that -- >>>>a rather dubious accolade. > > Your phrase "the Litany of the environmental crisis hysterics > regardless of scientific merit" is an insult to the many high-level > scientists who are concerned with the environmental degradation > caused by uncontrolled human activities. I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree here. As Dr. Bjorn Lomborg (a European member of Greenpeace) has so aptly demonstrated in his seminal publication "The Skeptical Environmentalist," (and from which I borrow the word "litany"), much of the environmental hysteria we live with does NOT have scientific merit. And there are many "high-level scientists" who agree with Lomborg, and not with some of the more radical environmental groups. I'll refrain from addressing the specific issues you list (Kyoto, Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" and Greenpeace), as I'm reasonably sure I would say things that would evoke a heated response, and that would drag us even further off topic. >>> >To me, at least, "Europeanization" is nearly the equivalent of >>> >"socialization" and is hardly something of which to be proud. >>Perhaps I used the word confusingly; by "socialization" I mean >>"degree of government-forced socialism." One does not have to live in >>Europe to know that, politically, most European countries are >>substantially more socialist than the USA. > > Socialism, socialization are effectively words with several meanings. > I am certainly not a "socialist" (i.e. a member of the Socialist > party) but I am rather proud of the European way of socialization - > compared to a number of unfortunate examples of hard, anti-democratic > socialist experiences in the world. If "socialism" is a political > management helping citizens to feel happy, why should we reject it > altogether? And are there not in the US many forms of these > socialistic actions? Of course America has many types of socialism, but we clearly see their value differently: you apparently like some of them, I deplore them across the board. That does *not* mean I'm going to be telling other countries how they ought to be run, but I'll be quite vocal about what I think should happen in the US. However, my comments were referring to the degree of socialism, and I stand by the claim that, in general, the USA has less socialism than European countries. > To conclude, Jim, why simply not accept that we, on both sides of the > ocean, have a common inheritage and that, rather than stressing our > differences, we should work together for the improvement of life > everywhere in the world - including metrication? Of course I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments here. I realize that sometimes I respond fairly intensely to comments not necessarily meant to invoke debate. In fact Madan's subsequent response makes me think I overreacted to the post that started this. Although I certainly think I have as much right to express my opinions contrary to others', I will continue to work to do so in a way that is not quite so confrontative. I actually can do that, when I remember to calm down before I hit the "send" button. Thanks for your email Louis -- it will help keep me grounded. Jim Elwell
