Oops, I should have said "Torah/Old Testament AND New Testament," given that Marcus made reference to the latter.
Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-usma@;colostate.edu]On >Behalf Of Bill Potts >Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 14:24 >To: U.S. Metric Association >Subject: [USMA:23084] Re: Question about date format -- OFF TOPIC > > >Marcus: > >I would suggest that one fundamentalist belief (among many) is hardly a >basis for a day-of-the-week numbering convention. > >The overwhelming biblical evidence to which you refer is, to most of the >world's population, simply evidence of the beliefs of those who wrote the >various books of the Torah/Old Testament. It is not evidence of actual >occurrences. > >Someone pointed out that the question of which day starts the week >is purely >a cultural one and varies widely throughout the world. Similarly, how any >religious denomination numbers the days is purely an internal matter and of >no real import in setting standards. > >Thus, I recommend that we leave religion out of this, in favor of >scientific >pragmatism. > >Bill Potts, CMS >Roseville, CA >http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-usma@;colostate.edu]On >>Behalf Of Ma Be >>Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:50 >>To: U.S. Metric Association >>Subject: [USMA:23078] Re: Question about date format -- OFF TOPIC >> >> >>On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:23:53 >> kilopascal wrote: >>>2002-10-31 >>> >>>Not everyone agrees that the death & resurrection of Christ occurred on a >>>Friday to a Sunday. >> >>True. However, there IS overwhelming biblical evidence to the >>above fact, that Jesus indeed resurrected on a Sunday. More below. >> >>> The "error" occurs because of the remark in the Bible >>>that the resurrection occurred after the Sabbath and that the two women >>>going to the tomb in the early hours of the morning found the tomb open. >>>Thus people have assumed the resurrection occurred on a Sunday morning. >>> >>Not exactly, two of the texts found in the Gospels that Joe Reid >>shared with us are practically conclusive to the effect that it >>was *on the first day of the week* that Jesus resurrected. There >>can be very little doubt of that among most reputable scholars nowadays. >> >>>But, I once read a different explanation, that actually makes more sense >>>then the present theory. >>> >>Unfortunately this is NOT a case of 'making more sense' or not, >>but of what ACTUALLY has been reported in Scriptures! In order >>for one to draw conclusive statements on this subject one MUST >>follow rigorous rules of exegesis and hermeneutics when it comes >>to "interpretation" of the Bible. >> >>>First, of all the Bible does say that Jesus was dead 3 days. >>Yet, there is >>>only 1.5 days between a Friday afternoon and a Sunday morning. >>> >>In old Hebrew times day reckoning was NOT necessarily tied to 3 >>days HAVING to mean 3 24-hour periods! This "tradition" of time >>reckoning is very well established in ancient Hebrew-Greek history. >> >>>Second, in addition to the weekly Saturday Sabbaths, the Jews also >>>celebrated 7 annual Sabbaths. Passover was one of them. These annual >>>Sabbaths are similar in structure to Roman Catholic holy days. A >>person was >>>forbidden to any type of work on the annual Sabbaths. >>> >>Correct. However, many times due to *calendar counting* these >>Sabbaths MAY and DID coincide with the regular weekly order. And >>when this situation happened that Sabbath festivity was >>"nicknamed" a "big Sabbath" (or something like that). On this >>case, though, actually there seems to be strong evidence that THAT >>Passover was one them. >> >>>Third, the Jewish day ran from sundown to sundown, not from midnight to >>>midnight. >>> >>Correct, again. >> >>>According to what I read, Jesus was executed on the annual Sabbath of >>>Passover. He actually was executed on the "Day of Preparation", which >>>occurred the day before the annual Sabbath. >> >>Correct. Except that 'day of preparation' IS (and was) the >>"official" nickname/designation for regular Fridays. >> >>> In the year of Jesus' >>>execution, the "Day of Preparation" ran from what would be a >>Tuesday evening >>>to the Wednesday evening. The events of the last supper (actually the >>>Passover meal - the Seder) to the death on the cross all occurred on the >>>same day, the Day of Preparation. >> >>? Not sure if I followed your rationale concerning 'Tue... to >>Wed'. However, such 'preparations' did indeed take several days >>prior to its Sabbath celebration, most was contingent upon how >>"big" (crowdwise) attendance would be in the area(s) affected. >> >>> Not two days as in our reckoning. >> >>Jesus did die near the end of Friday, but His burial was at least >>partially completed before sundown according to Scriptures. >> >>> Jesus >>>had to be buried quickly before sundown because the annual >>Sabbath began at >>>sundown and no work could be done on that day. >> >>Correct, again. >> >>> From Thursday sundown to >>>Friday sundown was a regular work day and the people were able to buy the >>>spices and prepare for their visit to the tomb on the day after >the weekly >>>Sabbath. >>> >>Ditto above. >> >>>The following day, from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown was the >>>weekly Sabbath and again no work could be done. Since this >>Sabbath ended at >>>dark, it would be foolish to venture out in the night to visit a >grave, so >>>the women went first thing at dawn and found the grave open. >> >>One could argue that there were more reasons for this. The events >>that took place during that Passover festivity, like Jesus' >>crucifixion, were especially noteworthy due to its obvious >>implications. Besides, many influential people at the time HAD >>NOT forgotten Jesus' self-proclaimed prophecy of His own >>resurrection. This fact alone made Roman and Jewish authorities >>of the time particularly cautious about taking measures to prevent >>potential consequences of this event. >> >>> This does not >>>imply the resurrection took place at that moment. >>> >>True to an extent. It's the context and hermeneutics of the texts >>involved with these events that should settle what REALLY happened. >> >>>Since the Bible says Christ was dead exactly 3 days, >> >>Again, let's please be mindful of what I stated earlier, i.e. that >>Christ was NOT necessarily dead for 3 full 24-h days! Actually, >>He wasn't!!! >> >>> there are 3 days from >>>Wednesday late afternoon to Saturday late afternoon. The >>resurrection took >>>place at the end of the weekly Sabbath. So, naturally when the >women went >>>at dawn the grave was open. >>> >>Having said the above, Jesus having died on Friday, even though >>close to the end of that day, would STILL make it count as 1, then >>the whole Sabbath, 2, then part of Sunday (He resurrected very >>early on that morning), 3! >> >>>The 7 annual Sabbaths were suppose to "teach" the chosen people >God's plan >>>for salvation. Each Sabbath had a meaning on how the plan was to >>be carried >>>out. The Bible says that the annual Sabbaths were to be >>celebrated forever. >>>There never was any authority given to any man or church to change or >>>abolish these annual feast days. >>> >>Not exactly. The Passover festivities were *meant* to remind >>people of God's Plan of Salvation, true indeed, BUT once the >>"type" met the "anti-type", like with many other ceremonial >>procedures, like the sacrifice of animals, these were to cease. >>Obviously, it's very reasonable to argue, once the TRUE "Lamb of >>God" was "sacrificed" there would be no more meaning for people to >>look at that "futuristic" event any further! It all makes >>absolute theological sense! ;-) >> >>>For this reason, some Christians believe these feast days are >>still binding, >>>but celebrated under the new covenant where the sacrificial lamb >>is replaced >>>by the bread and wine. >> >>Apparently so. Jews, for instance, specifically, to my knowledge, >>continue to celebrate these and other defunct ceremonial >>activities despite the true Messiah having already come and done >>what He had to do!... ;-) >> >>> They also believe that all those who do not continue >>>to celebrate these feast days and chose the counterfeit, Satan inspired >>>pagan days instead are not Christians at all, but "wolves in sheep's >>>clothing". >>> >>Evidently the above would be contingent upon what people would >>believe concerning the life and death of Jesus. >> >>>Anyone else aware of this belief? >>>... >>I'm not sure what 'belief' you were alluding to, but if anyone >>needs a more authoritative/scholarly study/reference on the >>subject I could share Dr. Bacchiocchi's e-mail address *directly* >>with any of you. I'm sure he would be delighted to share his vast >>knowledge on this fascinating subject. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Marcus >> >> >>____________________________________________________________ >>Get 25MB of email storage with Lycos Mail Plus! >>Sign up today -- http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus >
