Only one other person does the "400 yds = 400 metres" thing.The same person who created the 500 g pound for the UK. 400 yards means 400 yards.1/2 a mile is 1/2 a mile. Many years ago a lot of 'slippery road' signs went up using 'm'. When they were replaced they had 'yd' amounts that were converted. To yards. Having said that - a yard and a metre are very similar over short distances - and I doubt the tolerance would cause an accident. 'ie Common sense'.
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:31:03 -0700 From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com Subject: Re: [USMA:43520] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: barkatf...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu Since the road department in the UK uses metric to measure out the distances, then even if a sign says 400 yards it doesn't mean that it is 400 yards if it is really placed at a 400 m distance from point of origin. Then the word yards is just a replacement word for the meter. If this sign is ever updated to true metric, then all that would need be done it place a sticker over the word yard with one that shows the proper symbol for the meter (m). The same is true for the 1/2 mile. It could easily be placed at 800 m and no one would know the difference. This one doesn't look like it is placed int he ground. It would be interesting to see pictures of metric signs used in the UK, either public or private. Jerry From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com> To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu> Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 2:53:30 PM Subject: [USMA:43520] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. I've never driven near the Ireland/Ulster border so I don't really know - I guess that being as metric signs are still quite newish to the Irish it might not cause issues (plus, as you say, there's the common sense argument). I do know- however - that there are publicity signs near the border that say something like 'In Northern Ireland we still use miles" or something like that. You will notice in my sign (the pic) that the term 'Services' is given in Welsh too. Fortunately 'mile' starts with 'm' in both English and Welsh (mile, milltir) (although there is a situation where mile starts with 'f' in Welsh - but lets not confuse things!). However, for every yard based sign the figures are said twice because the word for yard is totally different. I attach another photo showing this. I'll also attach a sign that uses ' and " for widths where no translation is required. Note that where English precedes Welsh the sign is in or near Cardiff (all those Jonny foreigners from over the bridge head there!!!) P.S. All these photos are squeezed so as not to tie up our dial up members - I hope that none of them have tied anyone up waiting for downloads. From: trus...@grandecom.net To: usma@colostate.edu Subject: [USMA:43515] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:08:17 -0500 I was aware that the UK uses "m" to mean miles, but, wow! When I first saw this blue "services" sign photo, I wondered how much warning a six-meters-ahead sign was intended to give. I'd prefer at least a kilometer's warning (grin). How does this type of sign affect travelers at the Northern Ireland/Ireland border? I know common sense prevails, but there may be some confusion, especially among those visitors who may not be familiar with imperial units at all. The lower case "m" is the SI symbol for "meter." That's what I know. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Humphreys To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: 08 March, 2009 12:57 Subject: [USMA:43512] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. Do you mean like this one? (attached) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:14:15 -0700 From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com Subject: Re: [USMA:43468] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: barkatf...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu Obviously not as common as you imagine it to be. As noted it exists on older signs and is not used when newer signs are installed. The m is the legal symbol for the meter and since the UK is now a predominately metric country they will come into conformity but only as time and funds permit. Your insistence on wanting to see m displayed for miles is your personal attempt to distort understanding of the metric system. It isn't working as m for meters is legal and m for miles is not. Jerry From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com> To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu> Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 6:50:20 PM Subject: [USMA:43468] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. 'm' for miles is commonplace on UK motorways as I have already described Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:48:42 -0800 From: k_cooper1...@yahoo.com Subject: [USMA:43464] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: usma@colostate.edu Yes Carleton I could show you pictures of signs that are currently out there that are over 100 years old, but (unlike Stephen), I wouldn't imply that those signs comply with current requirements. There's an old bottle of Bells for sale in my local specialist Scotch Whisky shop. It's marked only in imperial, because it complied with the W&M requrements in force in 1952 when it was packed. Shall I claim that this shows that imperial is in common use to sell whisky in my local area? It's exactly the same principle as using obsolete signs to claim that "m for miles" is in common use on UK roads. --- On Sat, 3/7/09, Carleton MacDonald <carlet...@comcast.net> wrote: From: Carleton MacDonald <carlet...@comcast.net> Subject: [USMA:43462] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 10:16 PM They are current, because they are currently out there (it costs a lot to replace signs – we have some here in Maryland that are over thirty years old, and people can still find their way). I would guess that if the sign has to be replaced, it would be updated. Wish the bickering would go down a bit. Carleton From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Cooper Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 15:47 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:43453] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. And here's a perfect example of how Stephen uses half truths to deceive. 1) He states "Motorway signs also show "Town name XX m" - eg "London 23 m"* Apart from the fact that the motorway network is a tiny part of the UK total road length (see below), he fails to state that the "London 23 m" signs are not currently prescribed in the Traffic Signs Regulations & General Directions. Any sign in this form is an obsolete old sign & does not conform to current UK law (just like the old milestones or "20 cwt" signs you occasionally see) But that doesn't stop him claiming these signs are current. 2) He also states "There are signs that say "Services XX m" Again, this is not the full story, Signs in this form only appear on motorways. Has Stephen ever pointed out that there are only around 3500 km (2200 miles) of motorway in the entire UK? That's approximately 1% of the road network.. 3) He also states "And there are park (A big "P") signs that have X m" This is untrue. These signs state "X miles". No abbreviation is used. 4) Finally, Stephen said "This is on top of the ones you remember (the 1 m and 1/2 m countdown signs). Sometimes those countdown signs might have 1/4 m or 1/3 m but the vast majority are as you state they are." Yes. You will see "m" as an abbreviation for miles on grade seperated junctions. That's what I said in the first place. Can I ask what you intended by your post Stephen? The only bit that wasn't untrue or misleading was when you agreed with my point on grade-seperated junctions. I also notice, Stephen, that a lot of your post related to motorway signage. I wonder why you didn't mention the following signs. Don't you pass them occasionally (like every 100 metres or so)? I do. http://www.cbrd.co.uk/indepth/mileagesigns/ - don't you love the ironic title of the webpage, seeing that it's all about kilometre signs? --- On Sat, 3/7/09, Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com> Subject: [USMA:43425] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 5:14 PM Carlton - Motorway signs also show "Town name XX m" - eg "London 23 m" Also there are signs that say "Services XX m" And there are park (A big "P") signs that have X m This is on top of the ones you remember (the 1 m and 1/2 m countdown signs). Sometimes those countdown signs might have 1/4 m or 1/3 m but the vast majority are as you state they are. Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 09:05:44 -0800 From: k_cooper1...@yahoo.com Subject: [USMA:43421] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: usma@colostate.edu Carleton As John Frewen-Lord states, you will see imperial measurement used for the majority of UK roadsigns. Normally, official signs giving distances don't use an abbreviation for miles. A sign would say "York 10" rather than "York 10 m", York 10 mi" or "York 10 miles" You obviously spotted one of the "m means miles" signs.. "m" is also used to mean metres on some UK road-signs. These signs are mainly confined to signs showing restricted heights or widths & are also accompanied by imperial measurements in feet/inches. --- On Sat, 3/7/09, Carleton MacDonald <carlet...@comcast.net> wrote: From: Carleton MacDonald <carlet...@comcast.net> Subject: [USMA:43413] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 4:32 PM When I was in the UK in June 2005 our friend took us driving from Southsea to Stonehenge. On the motorway the distance to the next exit was noted on the sign as “1 m”. Funny, even though that looked metric, I didn’t see it all that close. Carleton From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of John Frewen-Lord Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:53 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:43410] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. My local Tesco in Grimsby weighs ONLY in metric units for trade purposes (at the deli and fish counters primarily). Yes, the customer-use weigh scales are dual marked, with metric as the primary (outer) scale, and imperial as the secondary (inner) scale. All our other local supermarkets (Morrisons, Sainsbury's, ASDA, Somerfield) only retail weigh products in metric, this is the law. Annoyingly, some counter staff insist on converting it to imperial for me (even when I have asked for it in metric), but that is sporadic. Also to confirm - all fuel, whether petrol (gasoline) and diesel at the pumps, or the fuel oil we buy for our heating system, is sold in liters ONLY. Even aircraft fuel is calibrated in liters (a friend of mine works at my local airport). I have NEVER seen automotive fuel in other than metric. Same for Canada - since conversion in 1978, all gasoline can be dispensed ONLY in liters. The UK is primarily metric (e.g. the laptop computer I am typing this out on is shown as weighing 3.5 kg, no imperial equivalent), and officially all government is metric, even though there is some backsliding.. Only the road signage, and pints in the pub, are not metric. These are the sole areas that those who resist metric conversion are holding out on. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Cooper To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: [USMA:43401] Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish sales in the UK. As you suggest, Jerry, one individual on one website seems to believe that liquid fuel in the UK is dispensed in "air miles" rather than litres. I think that his views can safely be ignored. I can assure you that UK law still states that litres MUST be used whenever liquid fuels are sold by retail in the UK. My view of the law is backed up by my own experiences in filling my car at pumps in dozens of filling stations throughout the UK, and in passing hundreds of other filling stations with large roadside price displays marked solely with prices per litre. UK petrol pumps normally have 3 active displays at any one time. One tells the price per litre, one tells the number of litres dispensed and one tells the total price to pay. Some pumps omit the price per litre & a few omit the price to pay. In every case, however, there is a requirement that the pump shows the number of litres dispensed. I'm sure that other UK contributors to this site can confirm my findings. With regard to Tesco's supposed return to using imperial scales at their fish counter in their Loudwater store, I would point out that this information is provided by the same individual on the same website I mention above. This tine, he makes a claim that Tesco are using dual scales for trade purposes in this store. Unfortunately, he refuses to provide any meaningful detail about the scales, making it impossible to verify whether he is telling the truth or not. I've never been in the Loudwater Tesco, so I cannot comment on that particular store. However, during the last 12 months or so, I have visited Tesco stores in Dundee (4), Edinburgh (3), Glasgow (2), Helensburgh (2), Arbroath, Ayr, Budapest(non-UK!), Campbeltown, Dumbarton, Dublin(non-UK!), Inverness, Lochgilphead, London, Oban, Perth & Stirling. None of these stores use dual-marked weighing equipment for any trade purposes (a few have dual non-trade customer checkweighers in the F&V aisle). Each and every one of those stores had weighing and/or measuring equipment in use for trade. Without exception, the equipment indicated in metric units only. Again, I would ask other UK contributors to post their experiences in Tesco stores. I'm pretty sure that only one person will claim to have seen such a scale, yet will prove to be surprisingly reluctant (or perhaps unable) to provide any real proof that it exists. --- On Sat, 3/7/09, Jeremiah MacGregor <jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com> wrote: From: Jeremiah MacGregor <jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [USMA:43385] Re: USC units spread to the UK - and no-one notices! To: k_cooper1...@yahoo.com, "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 1:48 AM Ken, I've heard a rumor recently that the UK no longer uses the liter for dispensing gasoline but has instead switched to a new unit called "air miles". Can you provide some further information on this? I also understand that some super markets are now re-introducing scales in pound units that are being used to weigh goods asked for by customers. I believe that a Tesco located in the town of Loudwater has already changed over. Can you provide some further information on this reversion? Jerry Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free. Try it Now! Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free. Try it Now! Windows Live Hotmail just got better. Find out more! Windows Live just got better. Find out more! _________________________________________________________________ View your Twitter and Flickr updates from one place – Learn more! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/
