Stephen Humphreys said
"I tend to feel that people are inherently good, that a minority are bad. I
also believe that we should come down heavy on anyone who is bad. I also think
that if your bread and butter (does that translate to US?) relies on a good
reputation then you don't cheat your own customers."
If that is the case, will Stephen join me in condemning "Metric Martyr" Colin
Hunt, who (in addition to his convictions for using unstamped equipment) has
been convicted on numerous occasions for short-measuring his customers?
In addition, will he also join me in condemning Huddersfield market trader
David Murphy who was convicted of using inaccurate imperial scales to cheat his
customers?
Stephen Humphreys also said (my emphasis)
"Having said all that I do not see why that would be an issue if a shop
displays both imperial and metric "where it counts". I say "where it counts"
meaning those areas where you actually do make a purchase based upon weight.
Most places show both in this case (eg Fruit, Veg. Deli, etc)."
One supermarket chain in the UK (Tesco) has dual markings on some goods sold
loose from bulk in the fruit & veg aisle. Examples would include loose potatoes
& loose bananas. Prepacked goods are generally marked in metric only (500g bags
of carrots, 1.5kg bags of potatoes etc) Other goods are sold by the unweighed
bunch (spring onions) or by number (lettuces priced "each" etc)
All in all, I would suggest that no more than a third of goods marked in a
Tesco fruit & veg aisle are dual marked - and that's in a big store with scales
at the checkout! My local Tesco has no scales, so there are no imperial
markings whatsoever at the fruit & veg aisle.
Now, Tesco have more imperial marking than anyone else. I've recently been in
Co-op, Sainsbury, Asda and Marks & Spencers fruit & veg aisles. They all mark
in metric only.
So how does Stephen come to his conclusion that "Most places" display F&V in
dual? Would it not be more honest to admit that he is really referring to one
supermarket chain?
With regard to dual pricing in Delis, Stephen is again referring to Tesco.
Tesco Delis do dual mark. Again, however, the Co-op & other supermarkets do not
dual mark, and every local independent deli in my local area uses metric only.
Stephen also said
"People select packed items based mainly on appearance. Like cereals, bread,
etc. The look and feel comes into play. And if it does not what are you going
to do? Empty some of the cornflakes out so it becomes XXX g or XX oz? I know
that there needs to be weight markings on these items and for consistency I'd
probably prefer it to be dual but in reality it's there to meet legal
requirements - I've yet to hear someone actually go into Tesco to seek out
so-many-measures of biscuits, etc. With the possible excpetion of "pints" of
milk and the "2 litre" pop bottles - they've almost become trade marks."
I note that Stephen has chosen examples of products (cereals, breads) that are
currently caught by UK Prescribed Quantities legislation.
Currently a UK loaf weighs 800g. That's the standard size. The legislation is
going to change very soon though.
Answer me this please Stephen. When prescribed quantities are abolished, how
are you going to tell the difference between 2 similar looking loaves (one
weighing a full 800g & one only weighing 700g) without looking at the weight
label? It's easy to make a large looking loaf full of air. Aren't you going to
buy the cheaper product if the 2 loaves look identical (apart from the weight
marking)
With regard to cereals, looking at the box size doesn't tell you very much at
all. We've all seen the "Contents will have settled during transportation"
warning. It's only the weight marking that gives us information regarding the
contents.
And why insist on dual marking? The goods are measured on metric equipment. Why
force manufacturers to mark additional unnecessary imperial information? If
there is demand for this dual marking, why do the vast majority of packers mark
metric only?
--- On Mon, 23/3/09, Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [USMA:44076] Re: changed to 'different opinion'
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu>
Date: Monday, 23 March, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Very well put, Carleton.
You need a wide variety of opinion in a discussion in order to understand the
subject fully and why others might hold a differing (or even opposite)
opinion. You cannot learn much if everyone keeps saying 'yes'.
There are those who would like to silence opposing opinion, or have it banned,
etc - these people are the sort of people you would not be best to associate
with if they appear to share your opinion on the outside - they're motives tend
to be privately different.
I used to be anti-metric. Yup! It's true! But it's discussion forums like
this one and others that made me come to "the middle" and become pro-choice.
Now I realise that this still does not fit in with the majority opinion here
who are definitely 'pro-metric' but consider the fact that it's discussions
that I've read here (and on other forums) that have moved me away from the
anti-metric position. In my case I sould put those forums down as being
successful to that cause rather than generate hostility. And this is DESPITE
those who many have said tend to 'embarrass' the pro-metric cause (I can tend
to see through the extreme sort who talk of *actual wars* about the subject and
the like, even insulting entire nations, eg wanting hardship on my own country
of all things!!).
I have said I am pro-choice because that's what I want for everyone. My own
preference **tends** to be for imperial (not always but on balance 'mainly').
That's different - because that's personal . It's heart and head stuff. And
it's my choice and opinion to be that way - you are free to say that I am wrong
and I have never forced my opinion here by spamming hundreds of mails because I
respect the ownership of this forum. *I* don't think I'm wrong because I don't
think I could tell someone else that their preferences are wrong too. Nothing
is that clear cut - hence the discussions and arguments STILL going on after
all these years - and pressure groups representing all sides. And as I said -
my personal preference is quite (but not much) different to my overall view of
pro-choice. And I use metric when I want to and I don't feel like I'm doing
anything 'wrong' or 'strange' - and I would say that to anyone who criticises
my use of metric as
much as I would for my use of imperial.
So thanks for bringing that up Carelton - I can tell you're a well balanced,
well meaning individual ;-)
In an effort to contain multi-emails I'll respond to another poster who spoke
about cheating custoemrs etc.
I tend to feel that people are inherently good, that a minority are bad. I
also believe that we should come down heavy on anyone who is bad. I also think
that if your bread and butter (does that translate to US?) relies on a good
reputation then you don't cheat your own customers.
Having said all that I do not see why that would be an issue if a shop displays
both imperial and metric "where it counts". I say "where it counts" meaning
those areas where you actually do make a purchase based upon weight. Most
places show both in this case (eg Fruit, Veg. Deli, etc). I don't think that
is cheating people. With regards to pre-packed stuff I don't have a strong
opinion. I actually believe (get this, how radical can you be...) that people
select packed items based mainly on appearance. Like cereals, bread, etc. The
look and feel comes into play. And if it does not what are you going to do?
Empty some of the cornflakes out so it becomes XXX g or XX oz? I know that
there needs to be weight markings on these items and for consistency I'd
probably prefer it to be dual but in reality it's there to meet legal
requirements - I've yet to hear someone actually go into Tesco to seek out
so-many-measures of biscuits, etc.
With the possible excpetion of "pints" of milk and the "2 litre" pop bottles -
they've almost become trade marks.
Well - that's my one 'condensed' post for the entire weekend - feel free to
shoot me down but all I can offer is my opinion, my thoughts and my personal
take on things.
I actually hope that some things I've said about the UK can help form opinion
on "how not to do things / where it's gone wrong / where it's succeeded
etc...". For the 'warrior' that must sound odd - passing my "secrets" to the
"enemy" lol :-) To the rest it's great to know that differing opinions on
how things are measured definitely does not mean human-to-human personal
hatred. That's how its should be and fortunately the massive majority tend to
be that way.
Steve
From: carlet...@comcast.net
To: usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:44060] Re: take it off--take it all off!
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:16:37 -0400
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This is a discussion forum, not a decision-making body. Everyone should be
part of the discussion forum because you need to know what opponents are
thinking, and sometimes what they have to say can clarify your own thinking.
A decision-making body, however, should be made up of only those committed to
the goals of that body. Thus, the US Metric Board’s fatal flaw. If you decide
you are going to do something, then all of you have to be in agreement to do
it.
Carleton
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of
Jeremiah MacGregor
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 20:00
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:44025] Re: take it off--take it all off!
Paul,
If you really want to see some progress in metrication, then the last thing you
need is for this forum to be sabotaged by anti-metric forces. None of these
comments by either myself or Ken was meant to be a private pique but to expose
Stephen Humphreys for what he is: extremely anti-metric no matter what curtain
he hides behind.
If the purpose of this forum is to promote metrication in the US, then why do
you need someone from a foreign country who opposes metrication to get in your
way? Just because someone is polite does not make them friendly to your
cause. The US metric board failed not from internal strife, but allowing
members who were anti-metric to be apart of it. If you want that same failure
to be a part of USMA efforts to metricate, then by all means welcome the
Stephen Humphreys types with open arms.
If I were in your shoes, I would bite the bullet and tell Stephen he is not
welcome here as his views are anathema to the goals of the USMA listserver..
Failure to do that and you will end up like the US metric board.
Jerry
From: Paul Trusten <trus...@grandecom.net>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:09:28 PM
Subject: [USMA:43988] take it off--take it all off!
No, I don't have a stripper video attached. I am asking our Listserver
subscribers once again to please take private piques and quarrels off the
list.
Active as we may be, we supporters of metrication are small in number. We are a
family of committed, thinking people, and should always work to resolve our
differences and build each other up, not tear each other down. I have always
been, and remain, honored to count myself a member of both USMA and this list.
A number of us belong on a future U.S. Metric Board, because we have been
studying the U.S. metrication problem, not just for a day or two, but for
decades. Add to that the fact that we come from disparate experiences and
professions, and that is the proper mix of human resources for writing a
metrication plan for the Nation. The first U.S. Metric Board died just as much
from internal strife as it did from national leadership failure. We must stand
united in spirit as well as in vision.
Paul Trusten, R.Ph.
Public Relations Director
U.S. Metric Association, Inc.
www.metric.org
3609 Caldera Blvd. Apt. 122
Midland TX 79707-2872 US
+1(432)528-7724
trus...@grandecom.net
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