>No, but I'm saying you're passing judgment on something which you haven't >experienced yourself.
no, that's not what i'm saying. you need to do a better job of listening. to quote yourself "One of the essential elements of making a good argument is showing that you're well versed in the argument of the other side." lol. ;-) from what i *have* experienced of moore, i form my judgements. i haven't seen f911, and because of that, it has nothing to do with what i think of him. so, if you are bent out of shape because people critic moore based on f911 but they haven't seen it, then go flame them - not me, because when you do, you damage your own credibility. >Bowling for Columbine (which I agree is probably his worst) i'm assuming you say its the worst because you admit that it is intellectually dishonest? because besides from that, i think it could have been a good film. you appear to be defending moore, but i don't understand how you can defend someone who has demonstrated such a disingenuous nature. again, 'bias' has nothing to do with intellectualy dishonesty. >As for being a "mean" person, no. okay, well - i guess we will have to disagree here - this of course is highly subjective. i think his treatment of charlton heston was simply mean. charlton was most likely already suffering from alzheimer's when his "interview" took place, and moore's behavior during the interview either indicates he is a clueless idiot (which he is not) or that he is mean. >Mean people do what they do simply out of >spite and for the sheer personal pleasure of destruction. yeah, i think the "mean fat guy" takes pleasure in much of what he does. the armchair psychologist in me says he got picked on when he was a kid, and now he is scorching the earth as revenge. i think it's pretty common. when i worked in san francisco, i worked with amazingly socially and politically liberal people. interestingly enough, while most of them were ardent supporters of his message, none of them approved of how he delivered it. they were ashamed of his intellectual dishonesty. just my own experience, ymmv. Josh Coates http://www.jcoates.org -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Soren Harward Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:27 PM To: BYU Unix Users Group Subject: Re: [uug] [OT] Michael Moore to speak at UVSC On Thu 16 Sep 2004 at 22:31:28, Josh Coates said: > > >This is an interesting statement I've heard many, many times about Michael > >Moore's films, especially F911. Just out of curiosity, how many people > here > >*have* seen F911? > > soren, i hope you are not implying that my statements about moore are not > valid because i haven't seen his most recent film. No, but I'm saying you're passing judgment on something which you haven't experienced yourself. There are a lot of people -- including members of the Bush Administration -- who have said, "I haven't seen the movie, but I know it's full of lies." Well, that doesn't really give you much of a leg to stand on. At best, it's saying "I don't form my own opinions. I listen to someone else." At worst, it's saying "I'm not going to listen to you because I've pre-judged you and decided you're a liar, and therefore nothing you say is of merit." One of the essential elements of making a good argument is showing that you're well versed in the argument of the other side. > also, soren, i don't mean to pick on you, but since you responded to my > comments, i'll ask: dont you think michael moore is just a *mean* person? > have you seen bowling for columbine? is f911 the only moore film you have > watched? have you read his books? Movies of his I've seen: Roger & Me The Big One Bowling for Columbine (which I agree is probably his worst) Fahrenheit 9/11 Books of his I've read: Idiot Nation As for being a "mean" person, no. Mean people do what they do simply out of spite and for the sheer personal pleasure of destruction. Michael Moore -- despite what Michael Wilson, director of "Michael Moore Hates America" will tell you -- doesn't do what he does to be destructive. He's tactless, confrontational, abrasive, intrusive, and at times reckless, but he isn't mean. He's trying to better the world, just in a method outside our social norms. -- Soren Harward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- http://theboard.byu.edu/ "Americans are always attempting to run away from conformity, but unfortunately they always start running in the same direction." -- Art Buchwald ____________________ BYU Unix Users Group http://uug.byu.edu/ ___________________________________________________________________ List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list
