Just RE-read the post that has you all riled. He basically says "here's a weird feature that can cause your backups to come to a complete halt just because of a bad file deletion/button clicking combo. Wouldn't that suck? Yet another reason to use Unix masters."
I agree with every word. Any "feature" that would cause my backups to be halted just cause somebody deleted the wrong file (unless, of course, that file happened to be bpcd.exe) is a bad feature. That feature doesn't exist on Unix masters, which makes it just another reason to use Unix masters. That's all the guy said. Can you argue with that? And that message happened to come right after mine that said that if you want to do scripting in NBU, the best way is to use a Unix master or install perl on Windows. Again, are you actually arguing with that? Or did these messages just hit you at the wrong time? I know yours hit me at the wrong time. ;) I'll do my best to keep in mind that there are some who actually prefer Windows and have no interest in learning the complexities of Unix if you'll do your best to remember that a whole bunch of us ol' farts prefer Unix, and it's hard for us to change. --- W. Curtis Preston Author of O'Reilly's Backup & Recovery and Using SANs and NAS VP Data Protection GlassHouse Technologies -----Original Message----- From: Martin, Jonathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:39 PM To: Jeff Lightner; Curtis Preston; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters Response well taken. Warts and halitosis lol! =) Look I don't claim to be the do all and end all to fairness but posts like that one are needless flames against an OS I happen to support. Its one thing if there's a critical technote that you'd like to share with the group or if you find a technote that you don't understand that might pertain to you, but what the OP boiled down too was, look at this Windows related technote I found posted a few days ago, doesn't windows blow? That's just unnecessary. I'm all for debate... I love it. You want to talk about SCSI vs. SATA vs. SAS I'll chat with you all day about hardware and practical limitations. You wana talk about Windows Versus Solaris or Redhat versus Suse I'm all for intelligent conversation on the matter, but writing entire posts on "lookie here, Windows sucks" is simply inappropriate. I've created enterprise deployment packages (MSIs) using ORCA, AdminStudio and WISE installer for two Fortune 500 companies, and I can tell you from experience that if the MSI repairs the install because of a missing .pdf then that's because that's how Symantec put the MSI together. That .pdf is just as critical as the .exe, which has got nothing to do with Microsoft or Msiexec, its got to do with Symantec's build. If this is the case has anyone reported it to Symantec? What a silly bug that can be easily fixed! What it boils down to for me is common courtesy and respect. Respect for working professionals just like you who work in data centers just like yours who support systems with massive complexity on a limited budget and with half the staff they need to do it properly. I think its great that anyone in our shoes finds the time to respond to forum requests from people half a world away and I think we all deserve better than misguided posts about your OS sucks, or your hardware sucks etc... I'm sorry for the flame. Just my .02 -Jonathan ________________________________ From: Jeff Lightner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/30/2007 7:50 PM To: Curtis Preston; Martin, Jonathan; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters Point of information: It was not I that did the flame - it was Martin, Jonathan. Perhaps I should have stayed out of it but I couldn't resist responding with what I thought was a humorous (ok, some might say, [EMAIL PROTECTED]) reply. :D -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Preston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:07 PM To: Jeff Lightner; Martin, Jonathan (Contractor); veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters Wow, Jeff... I didn't see anything aimed at anyone personally until your message. I saw my message that says I don't think Windows systems should be master or media servers, and I stand by that with one caveat (below). I saw a message pointing out a feature that had a very negative side effect. Then I saw your flame back to the mean Unix people for pointing out this side effect, and it even included a comment aimed at me personally. At the risk of completely wasting my time, I will clarify these two messages (only one of which came from me). 1. Unix master & media servers should be on Unix/Linux I tell everyone that if they're a mixed Unix/Windows shop, their master servers should be on Unix/Linux. And frankly, I believe they should be on Linux. If they're an ALL Windows shop, then they should stay on Windows. But if they grok Unix, then you can do far more with a Unix/Linux media server than you can with a Windows one. This isn't so much of an indictment against Windows as it is an acknowledgment that the predominance of NBU customers use Unix/Linux masters, and that most of the tools that come out of this user community will be written with an assumption that they will be used on Unix/Linux. (The admin that wrote the question, for example, could just use the scripts he/she was given.) If you want to "use what works," then use perl or shell tools. They're easily available on this list, they're easily supported by people on this list when they have a minor problem, and they really do the job. If you can't use them on a Unix/Linux server where they started, then you should do what I suggested to him and install Perl on Windows. I really doubt he's going to find someone on this list who can help him do with vbscript. And, yes, without going into it here, I see a number of technical advantages of Unix/Linux master media media servers over Windows media servers. Here's just a few off the top of my head: * Raw device access for disks and tapes * tape library and tape drive manipulation from the command line when things are broken in netbackup * Process lists that are long, easy to read * bpgp -- it's my favorite, unadvertised tool in NetBackup, and it's not available in Windows NBU * don't have to install security patches every other day and often reboot in order to install them * don't have to run virus software on my backup server What advantages do Windows NBU servers have over Unix NBU servers? Other than familiarity for an all-Windows shop, I can't think of any. How is this disrespect to Windows admins? 2. This "feature" of automatically reinstalling things is a problem All the person did was send a message that pointed out a feature of Windows that could cause your backups to shut down without any notice. While I agree that the reinstall of critical files is a nice idea, if it causes my backups to shutdown without any notice to me, that's NOT a good idea. I can't believe that your post basically defends this practice. I'm sorry you're not going to buy my book. It's actually got a lot of really cool tools for Windows folks in there. I explain how to backup Exchange, SQL Server, and do bare metal recovery of Windows -- all without buying a single commercial backup software product. --- W. Curtis Preston Author of O'Reilly's Backup & Recovery and Using SANs and NAS VP Data Protection GlassHouse Technologies -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Lightner Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 2:17 PM To: Martin, Jonathan (Contractor); veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters Everyone knows M$ Windoze causes warts, premature births and halitosis. :p -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin, Jonathan (Contractor) Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:59 PM To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] New technote for Windows NetBackup Masters Ok.. I was going to reserve comment but after those two comments bump that... <<<INCOMING SARCASM - FLAME ON>>> Synopsis of Technote - If you remove any of the critical Netbackup files from Drive:\Program Files\Veritas when you run the Admin Gui on the Netbackup Server, Windows Installer is (::ghasp / horrified look::) going to try and put them back. I mean, seriously, what is Microsoft thinking trying to put application critical executables back into their proper places? What kind of a drunken imbecile of an admin wants their applications where they belong? And even if we thought this was a good thing, we certainly wouldn't want to call it a feature!? And surely Symantec should realize a patch to fix this undesirable good idea! Thank you very much for pointing this out, I appreciate the effort. I think its great that you Xnix guys lob whatever bit of windows misunderstanding across the fence you can find to potentially hit us on the head with. We after all as Windows admins aren't very smart, and hitting us in the head with misunderstanding is certainly the best way to educate us. For the record: This is a feature of windows (go delete excel.exe and try running excel and you will also find this "issue" present on non-nbu machines too!) Once the msiexec (windows installer) is done replacing the missing files NBU will function fine and your operations people at 2:00AM will continue sleeping as usual, calendar function fully restored. I really am APPALLED at the level of blatant disrespect thrown around on this forum between Xnix and Windows admins. You should be ashamed. As both an SCSA and MCSE who supports everthing from Windows NT and Solaris 2.6 to Windows Server 2003 and Redhat 4 I find your attitudes pathetic. If you feel the need to make someone miserible, why not go complain to your neighbor when his lawn gets over 3" high because I'd prefer this forum remain clear for good natured assistance from Netbackup Administrators and peers. -Jonathan "I work with whatever makes you happy" Martin PS: No I am not going to buy your book. <<FLAME OFF>> _______________________________________________ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu _______________________________________________ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu _______________________________________________ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu