For Mark
From: markflie...@hotmail.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com; desert-tr...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:02:02 -0600 for the list....... J, you miss the point. As my flies are "Known" as Jazz Flies, (they've actually been written up using that wordage), they are all about "the music." For those who know, the term "the music" stands for a certain message within "the music." Which, is all about love and God.....and so we are taught, in "the music," to see with these, (points to ears), and hear with these, (points to eyes), and so forth. Now, do you understand? mark..... From: jbal...@a5.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:02:34 -0500 If God is love & love is blind, then Stevie Wonder must be God. Just thought I’d add some more controversy, J From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Niclas Runarsson Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:06 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Artistic Fly Swap Clarification Confused... "For the list"... followed by an angry man-to-man message to Jimmy. Why do you want the list to know that you're coming down on him... support? /Nick -----Original Message----- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of jim phillips Sent: 07 June 2009 05:37 To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: FW: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification For Mark From: markflie...@hotmail.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com; desert-tr...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:08:40 -0600 for the list........... Jimmy, NEVER, EVER speak for me..........you have no idea what your doing. And obviously you do not keep track of current emails. I have recently told Don that i absolutely DO consider his work ART. Guess you missed that. You obviously also missed where i have VERY recently clarified Jim Phillips mistakes in my original clarification, (he had inserted some words of his own, including that bit bout "using exotic materials, fancy beads, and silk thread".....HIS words, NOT mine), so keep up to date if your gonna challange, or cause controversey. Bottom line, ART is something you "Know" when you see it. Just ask Stevie Wonder. mark..... Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:10:32 -0500 From: ray...@earthlink.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification Who's to say what's art/artistic and what's not. Even though Mark doesn't feel that way, Dono's monster/Super sized flies are definitely ART in my book. I don't feel that using exotic materials, fancy beads and silk thread make a fly a work of art. What is art ? what qualifies as art. To muddy the ART water somewhat, I offer the following that I gleaned from Google. "The definition of art is controversial in contemporary philosophy. Whether art can be defined has also been a matter of controversy. The philosophical usefulness of a definition of art has also been debated. Contemporary definitions are of two main sorts. One distinctively modern, conventionalist, sort of definition focuses on art's institutional features, emphasizing the way art changes over time, modern works that appear to break radically with all traditional art, and the relational properties of artworks that depend on works' relations to art history, art genres, etc. The less conventionalist sort of contemporary definition makes use of a broader, more traditional concept of aesthetic properties that includes more than art-relational ones, and focuses on art's pan-cultural and trans-historical characteristics. From the Standard Encyclopedia of Philosophy. “It is not at all clear that these words – ‘What is art?’ – express anything like a single question, to which competing answers are given, or whether philosophers proposing answers are even engaged in the same debate…. The sheer variety of proposed definitions should give us pause. One cannot help wondering whether there is any sense in which they are attempts to … clarify the same cultural practices, or address the same issue.” >From the Standard Encyclopedia of Philosophy. In other words, what I classify as art, when compared to what you classify as art can be totally different, while both can still be classified as ART ! We had a thread about this some years back with several VFB members joining the discussion. Is fly tying an art or simply a craft. Below are some of the comments. Re: [VFB] new super realistic fly 2002/04/07 I would urge all fly tyers to take a look at what can be achieved. Vlad has demonstrated that fly tying (as shown on his mosquito web page) can transcend craft and achieve the status of fine art. Thank you Vlad for sharing your art with us. Ed At 01:50 PM 4/6/02, you wrote: Hi -- Ed Engelman/Sue Atkinson RE: [VFB] new super realistic fly 2002/04/07 Dear Listers I want to say thanks for your kind words and interest to this my fly. Super realistic flies have no the practical purpose like almost all kinds of fine art, they only can give few minutes of pleasure looking at them (or many week while tying them) and I very proud that you like -- Vlad Markov Have A Good Day. JIMMY D Jim Phillips wrote: From: markflie...@hotmail.com To: desert-tr...@hotmail.com Subject: for the list..... Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 23:26:01 -0600 Guys, just so we're clear..........the "NO recipes Fly Swap" is NOT something that is about flies for fishing............i got one reply already from someone who seems to think that flies, "that work for me" is what i'm looking for.......usually that is what we swap...........but this time that is NOT what i'm looking for. This swap is STRICKTLY for "Artistic" flies that would be tyed for the wall as ART. Flies "should" be tyed on rather large blind eye hooks using gut eyes. Materials are exotic feathers, fancy beads and usually silk thread. I know that many of my fellow tyers are able to tie "mountable" fishing flys but these super flys are not what is called Artistic (although they are beautiful). Please check my website for hints and also the web for artistic flys for some more ideas. Remember - only six tyers - first come first in. Thankx! mark Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. 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