Before I answer your questions, I want to make the case that this thread IS fishing related. Regardless of the politics of global warming I think all fishermen can agree that pollution, smog, acid rain and other such nasties that result from burning fossil fuels can be detrimental to our sport, so in that sense we are all environmentalists. Yet getting to where we want to fish, pulling a boat if we have one with a truck built to do the job adds to the pollution. An obvious alternative for a country literally swimming in natural gas is to move as many vehicles as possible to this resource, which is one of the least polluting sources of fossil fuel energy available.
It is fun taking my boat to a reservoir and paying 1/3 as much for fuel costs, but it is also nice to know I am doing it without adding much to existing pollution. It would be nice to see a LOT more CNG (or LNG) vehicles on the road, but in many parts of the US there is simply no infrastructure to make it happen. Luckily for me, Utah is the CNG Mecca of the US, IMO. Only New York and California have more physical stations, and we have far more per-capita than either. At 93 cents a gallon, our CNG is also cheap. And that brings us back to your questions. Yes, it is sold "by the gallon" but I am sure it is actually calculating the "gallon" using a specified volume of natural gas. Apparently a "gallon" of natural gas has less energy than a gallon of gasoline, but it is close, since my mpg hit is only about 30%. Refilling is as simple as buying gas. The hose is hooked up to a nozzle on the side of my truck using a device similar to the "quick release" connectors used for compressed air. Then the "pump" is turned on by moving a lever, just as you do when buying gas. Then you turn a valve on the dispenser, and the CNG starts flowing into your vehicle. A lot flows in at first, but eventually the pressures equalize and the flow stops. As the gas is released, the pump indicates how many "gallons" were dispensed. When you are done, you turn the lever off and the gas pressure in the line is vented. There is a pressure gauge on side of the pump dispenser that should read 3500 psi. Sometimes it drops to 2500, when that happens, I am only able to fill my tank with half as much. A common greeting when pulling up to the pump among CNGers is "The pressure is great today". The tanks are large and typically hold 13 gallons, but the only way to get that much in them is to have your own compressor in your garage, an option available to anyone, but pricey. Most tanks have a 30 year life, but have to be replaced after 15 years regardless of their condition (federal regulations). Conversions are available for most vehicles and cost anywhere from $5000 to $8000 dollars depending on whether the mechanic doing it is EPA "certified". This is a political football around here, since Utah has a $2500 tax rebate for conversions done by EPA certified dealers, yet both use the exact same conversion kits, and if they aren't installed correctly they simply won't run. The difference between the two is the credentials of the mechanic doing the installation. If my facts are correct, doing a conversion is the only way to get a newer CNG truck, since no truck dealers offer Duel Fuel (gas and CNG) vehicles to the public (Ford still does them by special order for fleets). Liquid natural gas would be wonderful since you could pack a LOT more energy into your tank, but I don't think it is available. Propane is available, but costs more than gas. I don't know anything about propane technology. On May 20, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Don Ordes wrote: > Tom, > CNG is still a gas vapor, as opposed to LNG, which would be Liquified Nat. > Gas. > How are they selling a vapor in gallons? No stores around here that I've > found, > so I can't go check into it. What's the refilling like? > Do they provide the tanks and conversion kits? I'd still have plenty of power > since my 3/4ton has a 8.1 liter gasser. My other is a diesel, so it wouldn't > work. > DonO > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Davenport" <t...@comcast.net> > To: <vfb-mail@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:39 PM > Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? > > > My truck is one of many white Ford F-150 that are on the road with the CNG > sticker on the back. They stem from a law (now defunct) requiring government > fleets to have twenty percent of the their vehicles use a "green" fuel. Most > used either propane or CNG (compressed natural gas). All of them started > life as conventional gasoline engines that were prepped for CNG conversion, > and they will run on either gasoline or CNG. The law lapsed, and as the > trucks aged they were sold from the fleets. > > The truck has more power when running on gasoline and better mpg. I get 18 > mpg on the freeway with gasoline, only 14 to 15 with natural gas. I don't > know what my city mileage would be with gasoline since I have never tried it, > but with natural gas, it is pretty dismal... around 11 mpg. But with gas > costing over $3.00 a gallon, and CNG at 93 cents a gallon, it is like > driving a 8-cylinder truck getting 33 mpg! > > There are several downsides to owning CNG. As Don pointed out, it is hard to > pack much natural gas in the tank. Mine is 13 gallons, but I have never been > able to fill it with more than 9. How much you can actually put in a tank > depends entirely on the current pressure of the refilling station . Sometimes > the pressure has been so low that I could only get five gallons into an > empty 13 gallon tank! Not only that, CNG stations are few and far between. > There are only three between Ogden and Salt Lake City, (but one of them I go > past every day on my way to work). > > The cost of natural gas varies widely from state to state. In Utah, all of > the CNG stations are run buy Questar, our natural gas provider. They are > located at regular gas stations, but I pay by credit card directly to Questar. > > I bought the truck primarily for fishing. I can get to all of my most > frequented reservoirs using natural gas, and it pulls my boat FAR better than > my old 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma! > > > On May 18, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Allan Fish wrote: > >> Tom said, >>> bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can >>> go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) >> >> Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the >> Utah stations are 93｢/gallon. >> All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). >> >> California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a >> flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). >> >> Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ >> >> a. >> -- >> Allan Fish >> Greenwood, IN >> afi...@sbcglobal.net >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en >> >> VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. > > To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. > > To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. 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