Martin, Thanks. "...their best shot..." Can't say it any better.
BTW. I never tied a crease fly before entering Deb's swap- didn't even own sili-skin. I spent many hours and a lot of tries trying to get that squid head to come out just right- before tying the flies for the swap. So yes, I ranked as a crease-fly beginner, but I felt that my friends deserved my best effort and a different slant on the technique to round out the swap. Martin, I'm in 2 swaps now, but I'd like to be in yours too. How about Winger parachutes? DonO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Westbeek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 5:17 PM Subject: [VFB] Perp Swap - to Dan - new Parachute&Paraloop Swap > Dan, > > After reading your post I went through Don's again, and I never found any > negative comments on beginning tiers in Don's post. Don just offered his > opinion - which after all is the purpose of a discussion list - and I don't > think there's any need to become defensive. > > I love tying, and I like swapping flies. Not because I would need flies, but > because I like to share with and learn from other tiers, whether they are > beginners or masters. IMO anyone who enters a swap should try and give it > his best shot in order to share the best that he or she can. Nobody should > be expected to do more. But nobody who takes himself or his fellow swappers > seriously should want to do less, either. So if I never tied a crease fly I > would not enter a crease fly swap > > That being said - anyone in for a parachute/paraloop swap? 15 tiers of any > level who want to give this theme their best shot, flies in by 1 Feb > (Holland)? I'll meister it if there's any interest. > Martin > > --- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Harriman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 11:40 PM > Subject: Re: [VFB] Perpetual Swap / to All Swappers > > > > Excuse me?? This is what the folks on this list think of beginners? > > > > DonO; You sure tie great looking flies. I am glad that you can even > > get more than 300 dollars for them. I think that is great! I wish that > > I were half as good as you. Maybe even a quarter as good. Damn, > > I just wish that I was a hair on your ass as good. > > > > I am a beginning fly tier. I thought that doing the occassional swap > > would help me to get better. But if this is the consensus of this group, > > I can see that my unworthy attempts are not welcome here. It is great > > that some folks have a fly shop within walking distance of their house. > > The nearest one to me is a 250 mile round trip. I just can't see the > > justification in making that drive just to be in a swap. > > > > You can rest assured that from now on, I will not enter any more > > swaps. Yes, I entered the crease fly swap. I was pretty proud of the > > one I tied, even though it didn't measure up to the standards of this > > elite group. It was only the second fly I ever tied for a swap. > > > > I will send your fly back to you and I will do so for anyone else that > > thinks they got shafted from my unworthy fly in the crease fly swap. > > > > I think that I will start to hang out at FOAL. At least they don't come > > out and blatantly belittle beginners like you just did. > > > > Bye > > Dan Harriman > > Orange, Texas > > > > > > At 04:25 PM 11/20/2004, you wrote: > > > > > >>As for the quality of flies, the same goes for the regular swaps. There > >>are > >>tiers that put out a worthy effort in the swaps, and there are tiers who > >>don't. Is it fair for one tier to put in the effort to trim wings, add > >>eyes > >>and legs and feelers- and another to submit a fly with 3 wraps of chenille > >>and a hackle-tip wing? I personally feel that if someone is such a > >>beginner > >>that the flies they submit will become throw-always, it would only be fair > >>to go down to the local shop and buy the flies required for the swap, and > >>just let the meister know. This is not unfair, and the step-up in quality > >>would serve everyone, and the swapper would still get nice different > >>patterns in return. They would thus still progress in their skills until > >>they felt confident in submitting their own. Plus, better tiers would > >>sign > >>up for swaps if the reciprocation was better. > >> > >>If we all exhibited the conscientiousness that Nick and Rodney do in their > >>approach, the step-up in the swap flies would be drastic. It's not that > >>all > >>swap flies are poor now, as a whole, actually it's the opposite. It's > >>just > >>that a certain % of flies of each swap could use some more effort. > >> > >>Flame me if you wish, but I think that it would be fair for swap-meisters > >>to > >>ask for submissions of photographs of swap flies from participants. This > >>would serve two purposes. 1st it would weed out the throw-away quality > >>flies. 2nd, and even better, the meister could offer constructive > >>criticism > >>for the tier to improve his entry for the swap. Now how cool is that? > >> > >>Now I'm not advocating that all flies for fishing have to be exotic > >>artwork > >>flies. Far from it. Simple flies catch fish. But there should be an > >>equality of effort to make things fair for the tiers who put forth great > >>efforts in their entries. An hour's effort per fly (or more for some) > >>should not be traded for 2 minute's effort on the parts of others. > >> > >>I'll respect everyone's opinion in this. I've had comments made to me in > >>the past about the quality of the flies in swaps, and maybe now's the time > >>to address it, with the comments on the perp box. > >> > >>Sine the vfb is the forum for swapping flies, I'll give the floor (screen) > >>to Byard and let him comment on my thoughts and give his. > >> > >>DonO > > > > > > If at first you don't succeed, maybe you shouldn't try sky diving! > > > > dit dit > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 11/13/2004 > > > > >
