Dear producer - distributer friends, I generally find rants to be counterproductive and I am still earning a soap box to stand on, but there is a practice that I need to call out as particularly odious. This past year, the Disability Services Department on my campus has started a unit that will occasionally caption videos for hearing impaired students, when a captioned copy does not exist on the market. They are very careful with fair use interpretation, and for better or worse at least with respect to accessibility (I'm not a legal expert on ADA, though this purpose does not appear to be exempted under DMCA), they always seek permission from the rights holder before transcoding and captioning the material. In addition, it is my understanding that they receive legally acquired video (usually DVD) from multiple sources, including faculty, departments, and the library for class screening use.
From my discussion with a Disability Services representative, on at least four separate occasions since they started this year, upon request, the rights holder came back and required they demonstrate that the material was purchased at the academic rate before they would give permission for this unit to caption the film. I will acknowledge that I do not have the specific details for each of these cases, as this is another unit of the university (though I have been involved at the tail end twice - read on). I wasn't on debate team, so I'll go one further and even concede that maybe there were some mitigating factors that I am unaware of. I also understand that producers/distributers may have contractual obligations regarding release of reproduction rights, and/or policies in place to insure a copy was indeed, legally acquired before granting them. I get it, really I do. That said, I would like to place a broad logic appeal to producers/ distributers for a moment to please take off your skeptical hat when a campus Disability Services unit requests permission to caption a film. This is a time intensive process, and certainly not a gateway to wholesale infringement (would they contact you or even me if they were so inclined?). Furthermore, universal access is not a privilege, it is a right. These students should not be held hostage because a unit on campus designed to help people, [that in this case] does not even acquire media, is unable to demonstrate academic purchase only to then have to wait while other campus units scramble to determine who is responsible for what, and who is going to fund additional (otherwise unnecessary) permissions. I've participated in this senseless exercise once already 2 months ago, and now need to once again. Finally, it should go without saying that all new productions, whether it be VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, View-Master stereoscope, or streaming needs to be captioned. My library has yet to adopt this rule as formal collection development criteria, and as I have limited oversight over single title purchases it may not be. However, I can assure you going forward, that any vendors looking to sell us streaming video packages will be at a severe disadvantage if this option is not included with every title, unless the content is absolutely necessary. Rant over, soap box returned, thank you for your time. Best, Scott Spicer Media Outreach and Learning Spaces Librarian Physical Sciences and Engineering University of Minnesota Libraries 341 Walter Library 612.626.0629 Media Services: http://lib.umn.edu/media SMART: http://smart.umn.edu On Aug 11, 2010, at 3:22 PM, videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu wrote: > Send videolib mailing list submissions to > videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://calmail.berkeley.edu/manage/list/listinfo/videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > videolib-ow...@lists.berkeley.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of videolib digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: VHS only?--available on DVD (ghand...@library.berkeley.edu) > 2. Re: VHS only? (Jaeschke, Myles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:19:39 -0700 > From: ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS only?--available on DVD > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > Message-ID: > <31bb59cae0111c68e73234ebeeda1e0e.squir...@calmail.berkeley.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 > > Good News! > > Thanks, Linda! We're all rooting for you mightily! > > gary > > >> The dvds of Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands should be available >> again soon >> (in the next few months) >> >> Linda Duchin >> New Yorker Films >> >> >> On 8/11/10 2:43 PM, "Jaeschke, Myles" <mjae...@tulsalibrary.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Gary, >>> >>> Ah--My apoligies, I thought it was only "legally available on VHS" >>> list >>> and >>> not including OOP DVD stuff. >>> >>> I do believe that Maria Candelaria was available legally on DVD at >>> one >>> time, >>> Midwest indeed sold it once upon a time. They also show >>> availability >>> for >>> Funny Dirty Little War but I think that is suspect and believe it >>> is OOP >>> as >>> well. >>> Dona Flor was available from NYV and of course is also gone with the >>> wind. >>> >>> Personally I think it's much more important to identify the the >>> titles >>> that >>> have never had a legal DVD release for preservation. Most (though >>> certainly >>> not all) titles that did make it to DVD that are no longer in >>> print can >>> be >>> found with relative ease and at a reasonable price on the secondary >>> market. >>> >>> Best, >>> Myles >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu >>> [videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of >>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu [ghand...@library.berkeley.edu] >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:18 PM >>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu >>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS only?--available on DVD >>> >>> Remember: my list is titles which are not currently in vhs or DVD >>> release >>> in the US (i.e. not counting the OP market). So, stuff that WAS >>> available >>> at one time on DVD, but is no longer is not included. >>> >>> Basically, stuff not currently available via amazon or Facets. >>> >>> You sure about the list below, Miles? >>> >>> Portrait of Teresa, for eg was a New Yorker title, now gone with the >>> wind. >>> Funny Dirty Little War? Gone, as far as I can tell. Maria >>> Candelaria--there are bootlegs, but no legal copies for sale. Dona >>> Flor? >>> Not around, as far as I know. Wuthering Heights (the '39 Wyler) has >>> been >>> OP for a long time. >>> >>> gary >>> >>> >>> >>>> These are a few that have had legal releases on DVD that I'm >>>> aware of. >>>> >>>> Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands >>>> Funny Dirty Little War >>>> Mar?a Candelaria >>>> Portrait of Teresa >>>> Raisin in the Sun (1989) had a very brief DVD release but is now >>>> gone >>>> Sid and Nancy also on DVD once upon a time >>>> Wuthering Heights DVD once upon a time >>>> Yellow Submarine DVD --extended edition only not theatrical cut >>>> and >>>> now >>>> OOP. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Myles >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu >>>> [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of >>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:21 AM >>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu >>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS only? >>>> >>>> ah what would I do without my daily Jessica annoyance. >>>> >>>> The Berlin Alexanderplatz on the list is the one directed by Phil >>>> Jutzi >>>> (1931)...not the 1980 TV series (on Criterion) >>>> >>>> The Leopard, you're right...we have the DVD and it shouldn't be >>>> on the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> I've included IMDB listings to distinguish the versions. The >>>> Uncle Tom >>>> in >>>> question is the (really horrible) one directed G?za von Radv?nyi >>>> (France >>>> | >>>> Italy | West Germany | Yugoslavia, 1965). The Jekyll/Hyde is >>>> Herbert >>>> Brenon's 1913 version. So, you see, I DO know what I'm doing >>>> (generally) >>>> >>>> The NYU project is very likely going to focus primarily on >>>> non-theatrical >>>> titles. Jessica: The only difference between out of distribution >>>> feature >>>> films and out of distribution non-theatrical works from an >>>> archivist's >>>> perspective is the fact that the owners of the latter almost always >>>> have >>>> more economic clout and wherewithall to challenge efforts to >>>> preserve/conserve. >>>> >>>> Section 108 of the copyright law makes no distinction whatsoever >>>> between >>>> features and others. >>>> >>>> gary >>>> >>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> I looked at this list VERY quickly and there are two obvious >>>>> mistakes. >>>>> The >>>>> Leopard & Berlin Alexanderplatz are both on DVD from Criterion >>>>> There many others where I am not sure which version you are >>>>> looking >>>>> for, >>>>> say >>>>> Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dr. Jeckyl. On Genesis is that is the African >>>>> feature, >>>>> Kino has it. >>>>> >>>>> I am less than certain how "good" the NYU project is as there >>>>> is HUGE >>>>> difference between some very rare educational type films that >>>>> are not >>>>> DVD >>>>> and >>>>> studio, indie & foreign films that are not. I had my little >>>>> "disagreement" >>>>> with one the main people behind this , who told a session at ALA >>>>> that >>>>> one >>>>> should NOT contact the rights holder regarding the rights >>>>> because they >>>>> might >>>>> actually say no, therefor the goal was merely to establish that >>>>> the >>>>> item >>>>> was >>>>> rare and not available and the rights were irrelevant. Not only is >>>>> that >>>>> a >>>>> deliberate attempt to violate copyright but would lead to an >>>>> incredibly >>>>> stupid waste of resources. Why in the world would a US library >>>>> "preserve" >>>>> some early french short already archival preserved in their home >>>>> country >>>>> ( >>>>> and this was actually one item that was mentioned at said ALA >>>>> session). >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I mentioned awhile back the interesting Mellon funded >>>>>> grant >>>>>> project that NYU and UCB are currently working on... It's a >>>>>> preservation >>>>>> project aimed at identifying (and dealing with) video titles >>>>>> that are >>>>>> out-of-distribution and physically at risk (particularly titles >>>>>> that >>>>>> have >>>>>> limited US holdings) >>>>>> >>>>>> In any case, as part of this project, I just culled thru >>>>>> Berkeley's >>>>>> feature film holdings and identified the vhs titles that are not >>>>>> currently >>>>>> available on DVD in the US marketplace. The list, fyi, is >>>>>> attached. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few caveats: We haven't as yet done an extensive search for >>>>>> legal-copy >>>>>> DVD replacements in the OP marketplace (e.g. amazon >>>>>> marketplace), nor >>>>>> have >>>>>> we searched non-US sources at this point. This is just a quick >>>>>> first >>>>>> pass. >>>>>> The list also does not, at the moment, include stuff such as >>>>>> shorts >>>>>> (silents, avant garde, animation etc.)that are currently only >>>>>> available >>>>>> on >>>>>> VHS anthologies. >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: Chris Lewis...weren't you maintaining a list of titles >>>>>> that had >>>>>> never >>>>>> been released on DVD? If so, could you pls publish the list. >>>>>> Merci! >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary Handman >>>>>> Director >>>>>> Media Resources Center >>>>>> Moffitt Library >>>>>> UC Berkeley >>>>>> >>>>>> 510-643-8566 >>>>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>>>>> >>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >>>>>> --Francois Truffaut >>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>>>>> discussion of >>>>>> issues >>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>> control, >>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>>>>> libraries >>>>>> and >>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >>>>>> effective >>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>>>>> communication >>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers >>>>>> and >>>>>> distributors. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>>>> discussion of >>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>>>> formats >>>>> in >>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >>>>> serve >>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >>>>> channel >>>>> of >>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and >>>>> video >>>>> producers and distributors. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gary Handman >>>> Director >>>> Media Resources Center >>>> Moffitt Library >>>> UC Berkeley >>>> >>>> 510-643-8566 >>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>>> >>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >>>> --Francois Truffaut >>>> >>>> >>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >>>> of >>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>>> formats in >>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >>>> serve >>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >>>> channel >>>> of >>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >>>> producers and distributors. >>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >>>> of >>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>>> formats in >>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >>>> serve >>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >>>> channel >>>> of >>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >>>> producers and distributors. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Gary Handman >>> Director >>> Media Resources Center >>> Moffitt Library >>> UC Berkeley >>> >>> 510-643-8566 >>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>> >>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >>> --Francois Truffaut >>> >>> >>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >>> issues >>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >>> control, >>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>> libraries >>> and >>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >>> effective >>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>> communication >>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >>> distributors. >>> >>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >>> issues >>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >>> control, >>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>> libraries >>> and >>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >>> effective >>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>> communication >>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >>> distributors. >> >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >> formats in >> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> serve >> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel of >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> producers and distributors. >> > > > Gary Handman > Director > Media Resources Center > Moffitt Library > UC Berkeley > > 510-643-8566 > ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > > "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > --Francois Truffaut > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:21:53 -0500 > From: "Jaeschke, Myles" <mjae...@tulsalibrary.org> > Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS only? > To: "'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu> > Message-ID: > <879996668085ee4ab2aab049051c420d91e4a66...@tccl-email.central.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Jessica, > I don't think Gary would disagree with you on the point that 108 > states that such copies cannot leave the premises. I would call it > an act of civil disobedience, to allow it to be removed from the > library. And yes, I suppose that using his same the civil > disobedience, that I too could copy some of our rare long out of > print material and copy and circulate (one that comes to Antonio Das > Mortes). Fact is, most of us don't have time to first identify said > films and then go to the trouble of making copies for circulation. > I have used 108 myself to copy rare local interest documentaries > here and then placed them in our reference collection (in library > use only). That said, like much of our other reference material > including books, if a customer comes to a librarian and convinces > the said librarian to allow them to use the material outside of the > library for research I'm not going to tell them "absolutely not". > I will say that the academic library world is a little different > than the public library world; as academics primary customers are > instructors or students doing research; and ours--well let's say we > have fewer using us for scholarly purposes, but most of us still > share the same principles including archiving known rare materials > in our collections. > > Best, > Myles > > Tulsa City-County Library > Media Collections > > > > From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > ] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:49 PM > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS only? > > Gary > I am not arguing about your right to 'save" it , I am arguing about > your right to circulate it. You yourself admit it violates the > provision of 108 that limits > any digital transfer to the physical library so you are in fact > deliberately choosing to violate it because you don't think it is > fair. You have the right to preserve it and make it available for on > premise viewing, you don't have the right to allow to be shown to a > class in another building. When an archive preserves the very last > known copy of a film it can not be shown or leave their premise > without the permission of the copyright holder ( for films still > under copyright of course), you are trying to take advantage of > something meant to encourage preservation to go well beyond that and > allow to be used off premise and shown to an audience. > FYI many public libraries have these rare , totally unavailable > titles in their collection, why under your theory should they not be > allowed to dub them to DVD and circulate them to patrons?. > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:23 PM, > <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > >> wrote: > You're only right on one score, Jessica: we don't agree. You seem > not to > have read my last post: I'm not talking about "upgrades" or > "convenience" > or caprice. I am talking about saving materials that are no longer > legally obtainable in ANY FORMAT from disappearing. I can't be any > clearer than my last post in conveying the fact that if a title > becomes > available and we've copied it under 108, we'll buy the commercial > copy and > trash the dupe. > > g > > > By the way: My philosophical and practical take on ignoring 108's > in-house only stricture is my own... The law is clear, you're > right, but > it's also patently idiotic, unsupportable, and unenforceable. > > > >> Obviously we are never going to agree. The law is very clear about >> this, >> you >> can copy material for preservation, not circulation. It was not >> intended >> to >> allow material to be used outside of a library and it is indeed a >> free >> pass >> which does impact a rights holder. I don't doubt you that you >> would buy >> a better copy if it became available, but I can tell you flat that >> rights >> holders often cannot take this risk.They can't invest in releasing >> a good >> copy if a significant portion of their market already made a DVD dub. >> Suppose you are not there or a superior says , but we already own >> it so >> you >> can't buy an "upgrade" due to budget constraints. Suppose the VHS >> you made >> a >> copy of is a high end educational item and it becomes available in >> DVD-R >> and >> costs $300, you think libraries that made their own copy are going >> to rush >> out and buy it? Your preservation copy remains available for >> research to >> be >> viewed in the library and while the scope my be very different, to me >> letting it be shown to a class is the very same thing as UCLA >> streaming a >> film to students computer. Most of the VHS only titles on your list >> were >> released in fairly large amounts and are basically the same as out of >> print >> books. Are all your out of print books copied and then given to the >> students for a class in which a teacher has assigned them, because >> showing >> a >> DVD dub of on out of print VHS would be the equivalent. One could >> find the >> rights holders of many of those titles without to much work but why >> would >> WB >> say sure go ahead and dub THE CROWD because we know you will buy a >> copy >> when we put it out next year. >> Bottom line is that you are still picking and choosing which part >> of the >> copyright law you will accept and you find this part of the >> copyright law >> inconvenient and very stupid. That maybe understandable, but it >> does not >> make it legal or right. >> >> As a side note I will mention that the same party working on NYU >> "preservation' project who told librarians not to contact right >> holders >> regarding >> a rare film they owned and wanted to preserve, t also told a >> meeting of >> archivists that you could tape a film off TV, digitize it and use it >> forever >> as well as buy bootleg copies or have your friend make a dub of >> something >> they taped off TV 20 years ago so it could be digitized and used in >> class. >> I >> am not filled with confidence that this project is going to have any >> respect >> for rights holders. >> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:38 PM, >> <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >> >> wrote: >> >>> I don't know how I can make this any simplier, Jessica. >>> >>> If we own a tape and the the tape is no longer distributed in >>> either DVD >>> or vhs, then I'm gonna try to save it from the flames...it's what >>> librarians do: we preserve the cultural record. If a faculty >>> person >>> wants to use that title to show in class, I'd be CRAZY to give him/ >>> her >>> the >>> rickety, at-risk original: I'm gonna loan them the copy. >>> >>> If the title in question becomes available, we'll buy it and >>> scratch the >>> copy. Period. >>> >>> This has nothing whatsoever to do with: convenience, free passes, >>> or >>> UCLA. >>> >>> gary >>> >>> >>> >>>> I don't see why you need a project to do that no. The EXACT >>>> reason for >>> the >>>> in building stricture is that this "exemption" is for >>>> archival/preservation >>>> purposes only, it is NOT a "free" pass to upgrade a format. You are >>> right >>>> about not being caught but then you probably won't get "caught" >>>> using >>> an >>>> illegal dupe bought on the net of film never legally released or >>> unless >>>> you >>>> are UCLA illegally streaming whole feature films to students lap >>>> tops. >>> I >>>> did >>>> not think protecting copyright was about getting caught. You seem >>>> to >>> find >>>> some elements of copyright law fair protection of rights holders OK >>> but >>>> not >>>> others. >>>> Your list for instance includes many foreign films no longer >>>> available >>> in >>>> the US or studio features that the studio has not yet released on >>>> DVD. >>> Why >>>> should a library have the right to basically 'release" their own >>>> copy >>>> without contacting the rights holder? >>>> I did for instance notice a number of MGM silent films on your VHS >>> only >>>> list. Well WB which owns those has been doing major work to get >>>> them >>> out >>>> on >>>> DVD and the main reason they are not out yet is that they want >>>> them to >>> be >>>> really nice when they do come out. If all the libraries that owned >>> copies >>>> just made DVD dubs and put them on the shelves , WB is not going to >>> have >>>> the >>>> market to spend time & money to release them. You will undoubtedly >>> assure >>>> me >>>> that of course the library would rather have the nice new HD >>>> transfer >>> than >>>> the crummy one it made, but who is to say that it will be >>>> replaced and >>> the >>>> rights holder is not going to want to take the risk on the very >>> fragile >>>> market for silent films. >>>> >>>> We actually agree more than we disagree and I know you in fact >>>> make a >>>> serious effort for the good fight of protecting rights holders, >>>> but it >>> is >>>> slippery slope from dubbing that inconvenient VHS to DVD to buying >>>> bootlegs, >>>> dubbing extra copies & Illegally streaming. Either you adhere to >>>> the >>>> copyright laws or you don't. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:09 PM, >>>> <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>> >> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Here's a scenario: two libraries are identified as owning only >>> extant >>>>> copies of a particular documentary or feature (on vhs) in the U.S. >>> and >>>>> you >>>>> can't see the value of the project? >>>>> >>>>> By the way: The in-building only stricture of 108 is such a >>>>> load of >>>>> crap >>>>> that I can't see ANYONE in his or her right mind adhering to >>>>> it. The >>>>> chances of getting busted for letting a faculty person classroom >>> screen >>>>> a >>>>> DVD copy made under the provisions of 108 are pretty slim. >>>>> >>>>> g. >>>>> >>>>> PS: The Mellon project is going to be developing careful >>>>> procedures >>> for >>>>> identifying those titles that clearly qualify for duplication >>>>> under >>>>> 108...including, if necessary, identifying and contacting rights >>>>> holders. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Well then I will take the use of the word preservation more >>> literally >>>>> and >>>>>> less archivally, however if it only involves copying those >>>>> deteriorating >>>>>> VHS to Digital.Since the"preservation" copy that can't leave the >>>>> library >>>>>> premise I honestly don't know why one would need an entire >>>>>> project >>> for >>>>> it. >>>>>> Under this scenerio it would in fact be irrelevant if say 5 >>> libraries >>>>>> owned >>>>>> the same out of print film on VHS. If it was in fact >>>>>> detiorating , >>>>> each >>>>>> makes its own "preservation" copy that does not leave the >>>>>> library. >>>>>> >>>>>> You will excuse my cynicism, but when again a major force in >>>>>> that >>>>> project >>>>>> tells librarians to NOT contact rights holders I get a little >>> testy, >>>>>> especially when they present the project as one of >>>>>> "preservation". >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:50 PM, >>>>>> <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>>>> >> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> We're talking about keeping stuff alive for use in working >>>>> collections, >>>>>>> Jessica. Not David Shepard territory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> g. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well re section 108. If you have that deteriorating VHS you >>> can't >>>>>>> replace >>>>>>>> and do a transfer, it can't leave the library My argument was >>>>> with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> "preservation' of said material. If you are just transferring >>>>>>>> it >>>>> than >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> not preservation , at least not in the way I think of it. If >>>>>>>> you >>>>> are >>>>>>>> actually spending money to do a preservation it would be insane >>> to >>>>> do >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> without the copyright holders permission (if you can find them) >>> and >>>>>>>> checking >>>>>>>> if the material exists beyond the US. Again this topic came up >>> and >>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>> did mention some French shorts that were held by a library, I >>> know >>>>> for >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> fact those shorts are preserved in France and copyright >>> protected >>>>> so >>>>>>>> spending any money on them and actually telling librarians NOT >>> to >>>>>>> check >>>>>>>> with rights holder, which this person did is stupid and could >>> lead >>>>> to >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> mess >>>>>>>> of legal trouble assuming you ever want the "preserved" >>>>>>>> material >>> to >>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>> the library. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FYI the imdb link did not come up for me so I could not tell >>> which >>>>>>>> version. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:21 PM, >>> < >>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ah what would I do without my daily Jessica annoyance. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Berlin Alexanderplatz on the list is the one directed by >>> Phil >>>>>>> Jutzi >>>>>>>>> (1931)...not the 1980 TV series (on Criterion) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Leopard, you're right...we have the DVD and it shouldn't >>>>>>>>> be >>> on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've included IMDB listings to distinguish the versions. The >>>>> Uncle >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> question is the (really horrible) one directed G?za von >>> Radv?nyi >>>>>>> (France >>>>>>>>> | >>>>>>>>> Italy | West Germany | Yugoslavia, 1965). The Jekyll/Hyde is >>>>> Herbert >>>>>>>>> Brenon's 1913 version. So, you see, I DO know what I'm doing >>>>>>>>> (generally) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The NYU project is very likely going to focus primarily on >>>>>>>>> non-theatrical >>>>>>>>> titles. Jessica: The only difference between out of >>> distribution >>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>> films and out of distribution non-theatrical works from an >>>>>>> archivist's >>>>>>>>> perspective is the fact that the owners of the latter almost >>>>> always >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> more economic clout and wherewithall to challenge efforts to >>>>>>>>> preserve/conserve. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Section 108 of the copyright law makes no distinction >>> whatsoever >>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>> features and others. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> gary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>> I looked at this list VERY quickly and there are two obvious >>>>>>> mistakes. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Leopard & Berlin Alexanderplatz are both on DVD from >>> Criterion >>>>>>>>>> There many others where I am not sure which version you are >>>>> looking >>>>>>>>> for, >>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>> Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dr. Jeckyl. On Genesis is that is the >>> African >>>>>>>>> feature, >>>>>>>>>> Kino has it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am less than certain how "good" the NYU project is as >>> there >>>>> is >>>>>>> HUGE >>>>>>>>>> difference between some very rare educational type films that >>>>> are >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> DVD >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> studio, indie & foreign films that are not. I had my little >>>>>>>>>> "disagreement" >>>>>>>>>> with one the main people behind this , who told a session at >>> ALA >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> should NOT contact the rights holder regarding the rights >>>>> because >>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>> actually say no, therefor the goal was merely to establish >>> that >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> item >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> rare and not available and the rights were irrelevant. Not >>> only >>>>> is >>>>>>>>> that a >>>>>>>>>> deliberate attempt to violate copyright but would lead to an >>>>>>>>> incredibly >>>>>>>>>> stupid waste of resources. Why in the world would a US >>> library >>>>>>>>> "preserve" >>>>>>>>>> some early french short already archival preserved in their >>> home >>>>>>>>> country >>>>>>>>> ( >>>>>>>>>> and this was actually one item that was mentioned at said ALA >>>>>>>>> session). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, >>>>> <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think I mentioned awhile back the interesting Mellon >>> funded >>>>>>> grant >>>>>>>>>>> project that NYU and UCB are currently working on... It's a >>>>>>>>>>> preservation >>>>>>>>>>> project aimed at identifying (and dealing with) video titles >>>>> that >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> out-of-distribution and physically at risk (particularly >>> titles >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> limited US holdings) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In any case, as part of this project, I just culled thru >>>>>>> Berkeley's >>>>>>>>>>> feature film holdings and identified the vhs titles that are >>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>>> available on DVD in the US marketplace. The list, fyi, is >>>>>>> attached. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A few caveats: We haven't as yet done an extensive search >>> for >>>>>>>>>>> legal-copy >>>>>>>>>>> DVD replacements in the OP marketplace (e.g. amazon >>>>> marketplace), >>>>>>> nor >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> we searched non-US sources at this point. This is just a >>> quick >>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>> pass. >>>>>>>>>>> The list also does not, at the moment, include stuff such as >>>>>>> shorts >>>>>>>>>>> (silents, avant garde, animation etc.)that are currently >>> only >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> VHS anthologies. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> PS: Chris Lewis...weren't you maintaining a list of titles >>>>> that >>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>> been released on DVD? If so, could you pls publish the >>> list. >>>>>>> Merci! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gary Handman >>>>>>>>>>> Director >>>>>>>>>>> Media Resources Center >>>>>>>>>>> Moffitt Library >>>>>>>>>>> UC Berkeley >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 510-643-8566 >>>>>>>>>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life >>>>> itself." >>>>>>>>>>> --Francois Truffaut >>>>>>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>>>> discussion >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>>>>>>> control, >>>>>>>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats >>> in >>>>>>>>> libraries >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve >>> as >>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> effective >>>>>>>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>>>>>>>> communication >>>>>>>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video >>> producers >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> distributors. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>>>> discussion >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>>>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>>>>>> formats >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list >>>>> will >>>>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as >>> a >>>>>>>>> channel >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and >>>>> video >>>>>>>>>> producers and distributors. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gary Handman >>>>>>>>> Director >>>>>>>>> Media Resources Center >>>>>>>>> Moffitt Library >>>>>>>>> UC Berkeley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 510-643-8566 >>>>>>>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life >>> itself." >>>>>>>>> --Francois Truffaut >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>> discussion >>>>> of >>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, >>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>>>>> control, >>>>>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>>>>>> libraries >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as >>> an >>>>>>>>> effective >>>>>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>>>>>> communication >>>>>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video >>>>>>>>> producers >>>>> and >>>>>>>>> distributors. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>> discussion >>>>> of >>>>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>>>> formats >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list >>> will >>>>>>> serve >>>>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >>>>>>> channel >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and >>> video >>>>>>>> producers and distributors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gary Handman >>>>>>> Director >>>>>>> Media Resources Center >>>>>>> Moffitt Library >>>>>>> UC Berkeley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 510-643-8566 >>>>>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >>>>>>> --Francois Truffaut >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>>>>>> discussion >>> of >>>>>>> issues >>>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>>> control, >>>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>>>> libraries >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >>>>>>> effective >>>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>>>> communication >>>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers >>> and >>>>>>> distributors. >>>>>>> >>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >>> of >>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>>>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>> formats >>>>> in >>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list >>>>>> will >>>>> serve >>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >>>>> channel >>>>> of >>>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and >>>>>> video >>>>>> producers and distributors. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gary Handman >>>>> Director >>>>> Media Resources Center >>>>> Moffitt Library >>>>> UC Berkeley >>>>> >>>>> 510-643-8566 >>>>> ghandman >>>>> @library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>>>> >>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >>>>> --Francois Truffaut >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively >>>>> discussion of >>>>> issues >>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >>>>> control, >>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>> libraries >>>>> and >>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >>>>> effective >>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>> communication >>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers >>>>> and >>>>> distributors. >>>>> >>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >>>> of >>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >>> acquisition,bibliographic >>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >>>> formats >>> in >>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >>> serve >>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >>> channel >>> of >>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >>>> producers and distributors. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Gary Handman >>> Director >>> Media Resources Center >>> Moffitt Library >>> UC Berkeley >>> >>> 510-643-8566 >>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >>> >>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >>> --Francois Truffaut >>> >>> >>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >>> issues >>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >>> control, >>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >>> libraries >>> and >>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >>> effective >>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >>> communication >>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >>> distributors. >>> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >> formats in >> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> serve >> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel of >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> producers and distributors. >> > > > Gary Handman > Director > Media Resources Center > Moffitt Library > UC Berkeley > > 510-643-8566 > ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > > "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > --Francois Truffaut > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed. > HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests. > > End of videolib Digest, Vol 33, Issue 33 > **************************************** VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
