Jessica... There's a HELL of a lot of difference between freely digitizing and delivering in-distribution content (under the banner of 107 or other rationales) and invoking 108 to save content that is out-of-distribution and at risk of going away for good. Come on, J. You KNOW these two things have NOTHING to do with each other whatsoever in terms of market impact.
Gary > No what it effectively says is you don't get the right to make a free copy > or upgrade. It is pretty clear it was written for preservation and > research > not for circulation which would include classroom use. If you could just > digitize everything ( which to be honest is happening in many unscrupulous > institutions) there would be no reason or ability for rights holders to > actually make decent digital copies. As Dennis has pointed out endlessly > it > costs a lot of money to make a good digital copy. I am a little grumpier > than usual this morning having been informed by a producer that a major > university did indeed digitize everything it owned and put it on a server > two years ago. Classes no longer bother with VHS or DVD and in this case > thousands of rights holders are screwed. The educational market in > particular is suffering not because the market has shrunk but because many > institutions are acting like Asian film pirates. > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:20 AM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> wrote: > >> Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my >> collection, >> and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration for >> the majority. >> >> This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it >> effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is unplayable >> or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. >> >> Gary >> >> >> > So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This is >> > absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be >> "damaged, >> > deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the >> > work >> > is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for a >> > digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS set >> in >> > the >> > case has any of these issues. I think we have discussed in the past >> that >> > you >> > don't get to just transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD if the title is >> not >> > available in DVD or have you changed your mind? This is not a free >> pass >> > to >> > upgrade to easier format because a professor wants it. >> > I have 30 year old VHS copies that play better than DVDs. I am >> honestly >> > shocked you would take such a blase attitude to rights. You are right >> it >> > is >> > a slippery slope that you seem to have turned into Niagra Falls by >> > asserting >> > any VHS can be digitized and circulated throughout a campus. >> > >> > The reason I focused on if this item was PD was because that was >> actually >> > the question. To be totally honest any professor claiming it is OK to >> > digitize a VHS released in the 90s because it is PD is either a total >> > idiot >> > ( which I doubt) or just trying to use any excuse to justify getting a >> DVD >> > because again the VHS is not >> > damaged just inconvenient. >> > >> > Might one ask if any of the lawyers involved in the Mellon project >> > represent >> > rights holders? Since virtually no university library is in fact open >> to >> > the >> > "public" which is requirement of 108 you might want to be careful how >> you >> > define the phrase. It is really logical to think the restriction on >> > digital >> > copy made from damaged VHS was intended for Joe Smith who has never >> ever >> > been allowed to take anything out from a university library in the >> first >> > place? I think we know from the ongoing UCLA case (more on that soon) >> > getting opinions from only one side is not a good idea. >> > >> > I confess I am a more than a tad skeptical of the Mellon project. I am >> > pretty sure that a this is the same project for which one the major >> NYU >> > representatives >> > told an ALA meeting that one should NOT try to contact the rights >> holder >> > when trying to determine the status of out of print work because they >> > would >> > only cause trouble and want money. I know Dennis has repeatedly urged >> > rights holders and the academic community to work together, but >> despite >> > the >> > claims that evil >> > big studios are eating up the world I don't see much effort by the >> > academic >> > community to include rights holders, especially educational rights >> holders >> > in these discussions. You can't one hand say how much everyone wants >> to >> > support independent filmmakers & distributors and on the other say, >> by >> > the >> > way we just made are own DVD because we didn't have the time for you >> to >> > do >> > things like get new materials for transfer, clear rights etc. >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:41 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >> wrote: >> > >> >> It doesn't have to be in the PD in order for it to qualify for >> >> replacement >> >> copying under Section 108, Jessica: 108 can be invoked as soon as >> "the >> >> library or archives has, after a reasonable effort, determined that >> an >> >> unused replacement cannot be obtained at a fair price." >> >> >> >> Recent discussions with colleagues at our Mellon meeting in NY >> >> (including >> >> lawyers)regarding the "non-circulating" issue of 108 seem to indicate >> >> that >> >> the interpretation of 108 in this regard could be extended >> considerably >> >> beyond the library building. The matter really boils down to the >> >> interpretation of "public" (any such copy or phonorecord that is >> >> reproduced in digital format is not made available to the public in >> that >> >> format outside the premises of the library or archives in lawful >> >> possession of such copy"). Use of 108 copies by faculty in >> classrooms >> >> is >> >> NOT public use. >> >> >> >> Putting this interpretation into play will, of course, depend on the >> >> position of legal counsel of individual institutions. >> >> >> >> Also: the issue of what constitutes damaged or deteriorated is >> really >> >> slippery slope when talking about vhs and other mag media. >> Basically, >> >> vhs >> >> tape begins to deteriorate the minute it's put in a box. >> >> >> >> gary handman >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I would be stunned it it were PD. I believe in order for it to be >> PD >> >> it >> >> > would could never have been copyrighted in the first place as >> anything >> >> > from >> >> > the last 30 years or so does not require renewal. Do you have link >> to >> >> that >> >> > reference? Also the fact that is NOT out on DVD is kind of sign it >> is >> >> NOT >> >> > PD as one would imagine that if it were some enterprising company >> >> would >> >> > put >> >> > it out. The fact that is on youtube and websites could merely >> indicate >> >> the >> >> > rights holder or holders are not very proactive but speaking from >> >> > experience >> >> > it is hard to get this stuff down when pirate copies go up. >> >> > >> >> > If the film were PD in it's entirety ( no underlying music or >> literary >> >> > rights) than you could copy it, but again that seems unlikely. If >> it >> >> is >> >> > not >> >> > PD you can only use the VHS copies. The section of copyright law >> which >> >> > "permits" making digital copies from VHS, limits this to copies >> that >> >> are >> >> > deteriorating and said copies may not circulate, they may only be >> used >> >> on >> >> > the library premise. >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Marilyn Huntley >> >> > <mhunt...@hamilton.edu>wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Hello, >> >> >> I'm forwarding a question that was sent to me by a professor. If >> we >> >> do >> >> >> not >> >> >> have the right to do what he's asking, can anyone give me contact >> >> >> information for the rights-holder? >> >> >> >> >> >> "The Machine That Changed the World." A co-production of WGBH and >> the >> >> >> BBC; >> >> >> the 5 VHS tapes our library owns (Giant brains, Inventing the >> future, >> >> >> Paperback computer, Thinking machine, World at your fingertips) >> were >> >> >> distributed by Films for the Humanities nearly 20 years ago. The >> >> series >> >> >> is >> >> >> long since out of distribution >> (*http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rlfkb* >> ), >> >> >> and >> >> >> is available for free viewing on numerous web sites (such as * >> >> >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/34pj6hh *and * >> >> >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/39j4p93*, and YouTube). The Internet >> >> Archive >> >> >> believes this is in the public domain. Should we trust them? >> >> >> >> >> >> First, can we make copies from our VHS tapes, and if so, are we >> >> limited >> >> >> to >> >> >> using the DVDs within the library? >> >> >> >> >> >> Second, would we have the right to download a video file from a >> place >> >> >> like >> >> >> this (*http://preview.tinyurl.com/5p55fd*), and burn it onto DVDs? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for any information or opinions. >> >> >> Marilyn Huntley >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Marilyn B. Huntley, Staff Assistant/ Film Specialist: >> >> >> Scheduling; purchases, rentals, previews; licensing & copyright >> >> >> A-V Services, Hamilton College, 198 College Hill Rd., Clinton, NY >> >> 13323 >> >> >> Phone 315-859-4120; Fax 315-859-4185 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >> of >> >> >> issues >> >> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >> >> >> control, >> >> >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >> >> libraries >> >> >> and >> >> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >> >> >> effective >> >> >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >> >> communication >> >> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers >> and >> >> >> distributors. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Jessica Rosner >> >> > Media Consultant >> >> > 224-545-3897 (cell) >> >> > 212-627-1785 (land line) >> >> > jessicapros...@gmail.com >> >> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >> of >> >> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> >> acquisition,bibliographic >> >> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >> formats >> >> in >> >> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> >> serve >> >> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> >> channel >> >> of >> >> > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> >> > producers and distributors. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Gary Handman >> >> Director >> >> Media Resources Center >> >> Moffitt Library >> >> UC Berkeley >> >> >> >> 510-643-8566 >> >> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >> >> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >> >> >> >> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >> >> --Francois Truffaut >> >> >> >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> >> issues >> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >> >> control, >> >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >> libraries >> >> and >> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >> >> effective >> >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >> communication >> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >> >> distributors. >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jessica Rosner >> > Media Consultant >> > 224-545-3897 (cell) >> > 212-627-1785 (land line) >> > jessicapros...@gmail.com >> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats >> in >> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> serve >> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel >> of >> > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> > producers and distributors. >> > >> >> >> Gary Handman >> Director >> Media Resources Center >> Moffitt Library >> UC Berkeley >> >> 510-643-8566 >> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >> >> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >> --Francois Truffaut >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> issues >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >> control, >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries >> and >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >> effective >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >> distributors. >> > > > > -- > Jessica Rosner > Media Consultant > 224-545-3897 (cell) > 212-627-1785 (land line) > jessicapros...@gmail.com > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
