You hit on two frequent funding scenarios Judy. When Film Ideas produces its own titles we often look to the curriculum standards and fit within the classroom, especially if K-12 is the primary market. Costs vary significantly depending on the type of production, existence of stock footage, travel, etc. We then compare estimated costs against sales potential and decide if we want to take the gamble that we can recoup costs and hopefully make a decent profit.
Individuals do produce docs to get the word out or to get a production under their belt not knowing if they can make any money. However, they certainly would like to. Satisfaction does not pay the bills. Another market can pay for or partially pay for the cost of a production. For us that is often educational television. For others it may be a theatrical release. Typically the profit is made on the backend though. There are consultants but we do not work with any. Typically they come from some aspect of the industry and are looking to capitalize on their expertise. Because of our name we are contacted regularly to grace us with their film ideas. 99.9% of the time we politely decline. There are plenty of other scenarios I'm sure but time does not permit. Regards, Bob On Oct 22, 2014, at 11:18 AM, videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu wrote: > > 3. Re: videolib Digest, Vol 83, Issue 32 (Shoaf,Judith P) > > From: "Shoaf,Judith P" <jsh...@ufl.edu> > Date: October 22, 2014 11:18:37 AM CDT > To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu> > Subject: Re: [Videolib] videolib Digest, Vol 83, Issue 32 > Reply-To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > > > Bob, I would be interested in the video production perspective. > What is the model for funding an educational film? Does someone way “A film > on this topic would be valuable for classes at x level” and contact possible > producer/director teams? Or does someone say “A movie on this topic needs to > be made, because people need to know about it,” spend whatever he/she and > his/her friends & family can spare to film and edit the story on spec, and > then offer it to possible vendors? Are there committees and consultants or > advisors, and if so where do they come from? > > I’m really curious. > > Judy Shoaf > > From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Norris > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 10:17 AM > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > Subject: Re: [Videolib] videolib Digest, Vol 83, Issue 32 > > Thanks Judy, > > Good to get the book publisher perspective. I was applying the GA ruling to > the impact on video distributors as we share the same market as the > plaintiffs. But as you point out the economic model and how the works are > made available are different. To date, 100% of our titles received no > subsidies or monetary rewards. > > Does anyone want to weigh in from a video perspective? > > Regards, > Bob > > On Oct 22, 2014, at 8:41 AM, videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu wrote: > > 2. Re: another summary of Georgia State appeal (Shoaf,Judith P) > > From: "Shoaf,Judith P" <jsh...@ufl.edu> > Date: October 22, 2014 8:40:52 AM CDT > To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu> > Subject: Re: [Videolib] another summary of Georgia State appeal > Reply-To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > > > > I was reading your analysis and feeling very confused until I remembered that > this is a list for VIDEO. > > For academic books (which the Georgia State case addresses), your comment is > just not true: “So doesn't it stand to reason that when considering fair use > for a work sold primarily to the education market, the economic impact should > be weighted more? That is what made the work available in the first place.” > > What makes academic books available is not the system of publishers and > presses, but rather the fact that writing such books is (a) subsidized by > universities and grants made to the writers, and (b) rewarded when the > writers get promotion for having published. So in fact the license to allow > students to read the work in question is the THIRD time the academic system > has paid for it. Professors almost never see any money from academic books of > the kind in question (unless it is actually a textbook which students can be > asked to buy). The publishing institutions make money, yes, but the work of > creating and often of editing is done for them for free by people who are > supported by their academic institutions because they do this kind of work. > (My husband has just finished editing, typesetting, indexing, and > proofreading a book he wrote, which will be published by a press whose sole > contribution will be to tell him how to format it and to advertise it, > primarily by supplying copies to reviewers who will write up discussions of > it without of course being paid. And of course the press will sell copies of > it, and keep any profit. My husband did however get a “merit” raise this > year.) > > I think the question may be whether the publishing industry is needed as a > means of routing academic work from academe to academe; since it depends for > its fodder 100% on the personnel of academic institutions, it needs to be > circumspect in challenging the need of the institutions to use its products. > > I gather that the situation is different for educational video, where the > filmmakers apparently actually get some royalties from their products, and > may be working independently of the academy. > > Judy Shoaf > > > From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Norris > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 9:45 AM > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > Subject: Re: [Videolib] another summary of Georgia State appeal > > Thanks Jo Anne. Ms Sims summary is really quite thorough and interesting how > it is organized, especially in light of the fact it was written on a Friday > night for a blog. > > There is one short statement that stood out from my standpoint as a producer > and distributor of material primarily, and often exclusively, sold to > education. It is an opinion that worries me more and more as the technology > becomes common place that allows for the easy and inexpensive dissemination > of educational material not just to the traditional four walled classroom but > to the proverbial global classroom. As curators of programs from many > distributors similar to Film Ideas I'm wondering how you videolibbers feel > about the following. (I've bolded statements from the court's opinion to try > and make these excerpts of Nancy's opinion, mine and the courts clearer.) > > Nancy states: "The idea that creator remuneration is -secondary- to the > actual purpose of copyright law is often left out of a lot of related public > discourse. But this opinion affirms again that "[p]romoting the creation and > dissemination of ideas has been the goal"" > > This ignores the statement in the court's opinion that: As the Supreme Court > has explained, “the economic philosophy behind the clause empowering Congress > to grant copyrights is the conviction that encouragement of individual effort > by personal gain is the best way to advance public welfare [by promoting the > creation and dissemination of ideas] through the talents of authors. . . .” > So remuneration is not secondary, it is integral. The opinion goes on to > state that you cannot treat the 4 factors of fair use with equal weighting. > You have to consider a case by case basis. So doesn't is stand to reason that > when considering fair use for a work sold primarily to the education market, > the economic impact should be weighted more? That is what made the work > available in the first place. > > Perhaps more importantly the opinion states: Nevertheless, “it is sensible > that a particular unauthorized use should be considered ‘more fair’ when > there is no ready market or means to pay for the use, while such an > unauthorized use should be considered ‘less fair’ when there is a ready > market or means to pay for the use. The vice of circular reasoning arises > only if the availability of payment is conclusive against fair use.” Id.at > 931. Put simply, absent evidence to the contrary, if a copyright holder has > not made a license available to use a particular workin a particular manner, > the inference is that the author or publisher did not think that there would > be enough such use to bother making a license available. In such a case, > there is little damage to the publisher’s market when someone makes use of > the work in that way without obtaining a license, and hence the fourth factor > should generally weigh in favor of fair use. So it must be 'lesser' fair > when the primary market, not just a ready market, is education. And least > fair when the copyright holder sells licenses to the program to the education > market, which license includes the segments already broken out. Let's be > honest. Professors no longer want to show the whole program to a class. They > want the nuggets. And if they can get the nuggets for free and don't buy the > program the producer loses economically. As streaming of short segments > becomes the norm, I don't see how you cannot say there is material effect of > the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. In > court speak- hence the fourth factor should generally NOT weigh in favor of > fair use under these cicumstances. > > Do I have blinders on because I'm focused on making money? What say you who > are paid to promote the creation and dissemination of ideas? > > Sincerely, > Bob > > On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:59 PM, videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu wrote: > > From: Jo Ann Reynolds <jo_ann.reyno...@lib.uconn.edu> > Date: October 20, 2014 10:11:41 AM CDT > To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu> > Subject: [Videolib] another summary of Georgia State appeal > Reply-To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > > > This from Nancy Sims, the Copyright Program Library at the University of > Minnesota Libraries > http://blog.lib.umn.edu/copyrightlibn/2014/10/11th-circuit-gsu-ruling.html > > Interesting case but unless you are in Georgia, Alabama, or Florida don’t > panic yet as the decision is binding only in the 11 Circuit. > > Best, > Jo Ann > > >
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
